Author Topic: To lift or not  (Read 1677 times)

Offline InkyFingers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: 32
  • All creations not equal.
    • View Profile
To lift or not
« on: November 14, 2015, 09:58:35 AM »
Some calligrapher never lift their pen off the writing surface to write as it disturbed the continuous flow of writing.  I agree and find it difficult to write a long word without lifting.  Your demonstration and method to not lift your pen off the paper would be most enlightening.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 03:07:41 PM by InkyFingers »

Offline MonicaA

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Karma: 5
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2015, 11:07:13 AM »
No demonstration from me because I don't have the ability to do that at the moment but I do agree to some extent. There are just some letters and words that I can't lift the pen up between letters. If I do I mess up the slant or put too big of a space. I find this is especially true for connecting say an a to an s but if I'm connecting an a to a t I have to lift the pen or I make a big mess of the letters.
Monica

Offline AmyNeub

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 704
  • Karma: 38
    • View Profile
    • 5th Floor Designs & Calligraphy
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2015, 03:29:44 PM »
Are you inquiring about Spencerian? I was taught not to lift until the end of a word, line or you need to ink. Spencerian creates a nice rhythm up and down. You will need to glide with you pinky finger gently resting, but gliding across your paper. Some people don't/can't glide so they write a few letters, then move their hand to write a few more and so on.  I guess that's all I know.

Offline AndyT

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2093
  • Karma: 148
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2015, 04:23:37 PM »
Pen lifts give you a chance to shift the paper though, which helps a lot with maintaining the slant - and they also provide an opportunity to think through the next move.  Del Tysdal's analyses of Ornamental Penmanship samples are interesting in this respect; this one for example.  Of course, OP ain't Spencerian, and nor is it straightforward handwriting, so it's not as if the points about maintaining rhythm and so forth made above are in any way invalid.

If anything, I should probably lift more often because my slant tends to wander towards the end of the line.

Offline schin

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1427
  • Karma: 115
  • Las Vegas
    • View Profile
    • Openinkstand
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2015, 04:35:23 PM »
I lift a lot, but I try to make it look like I don't  ;D
OPENINKSTAND // website | blog |instagramyoutube

Offline Jakmo1935

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 04:57:25 AM »
For the most part I lift, and believe a nice rhythm can be maintained this way. I think the a,c, d, g,and q makes for a better looking oval by lifting before you write. Like Schin, I think for the most part most lifts are undetectable. Then again, some words just seem to flow better without the need for lifts. IMHO
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 05:22:47 AM by Jakmo1935 »
a voice, crying in the wilderness.

Offline Starlee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
  • Karma: 53
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 07:13:53 AM »
I agree with Amy regarding spencerian and it's nice up and down movements allowing for less frequent lifts. Copperplate definitely has more lifting involved. In general, when all is working as it should, I rarely lift as I find it disrupts my flow, especially when flourishing. That said, down strokes of t and d's, I lift for them as I find it looks too sloppy otherwise. Also, my last few Leonardt EF's have been catchy (I need to buy potatoes again) and they are altering my writing to the point where I am lifting more frequently just because they won't glide for long stretches as they normally do. While I am cursing this, it is also a blessing for I am starting to learn how to maintain my flow even with multiple lifts. I am starting to appreciate the art of lifting the nib at the right time.
Star

Offline InkyFingers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: 32
  • All creations not equal.
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 03:00:34 PM »
Help me if I am misguided....

I know it's been a while ... I've been tooling with broad edge pens...and love every moment of it.

To lifts or NOT!

For broad edged, it is only natural to lift...and often we lift.  That is why italic is my friend so are other broad edge scripts, Fraktur.  I never had to use my arm or shoulder (or very little of.)

Back again....

I could never get the hang of Spencerian or English Round Hand.  In Spencerian, as now I understand ... as @AndyT and @schin puts it....don't lift unless you can make it look like you didn't.  It destroys the flow and often it comes out weird, quote unquote...(somewhere...)

In English Round hand -- depends if it is for handwriting or for lettering.  For handwriting improvement as is in my case, no lifts (like John Blande.)  As for lettering (for me lettering is something you create and wants it perfect) or in proper English Round hand (aka Engrosser's script) you really need to lift, and lifts you do often to create the distinct shades (so that the ink does not flow uncontrollably).

Did I get it right?  (I don't use a dip pen nor know how....yet.  I am still a fountain pen person.)




Offline Rednaxela

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: 27
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 12:20:30 AM »
In the old days, when it had to be perfect, they lifted a lot.

With Business Penmanship, to build rhythm and flow, it can be beneficial to try and cut down on the lifting. Some BP forms, such as the p with the looped stem, seem to have been invented while writing quickly without lifting. At least that's my theory.

Here you see me write the word 'specimen', BP style. I see I lift on the c, something I'm not worried about.

https://instagram.com/p/BR_qszah0tW/
-- Alexander --

Offline Rednaxela

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: 27
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 12:28:42 AM »


The Business Educator, April 1907.
-- Alexander --

Offline ash0kgiri

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1261
  • Karma: 34
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 03:53:23 AM »
Thanks for sharing this Alexander. So well explained. :D

-Ashok

Offline Simone Lettering

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 03:59:34 AM »
Alexander, thanks for sharing this article  :D
This information helps me in my just started Spencerian adventure!
@Rednaxela

Offline InkyFingers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: 32
  • All creations not equal.
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 09:38:10 AM »
Thanks Alexander.  This article puts the period on this subject.

When I first started my reform, handwriting..I was really a hard headed person, I was a running hand man.  Really never lift even on very long words.  Like the supercalifragilisticexpidocious!...All on one go.  You see, that's the Fountain Pen talking...I never dip...And probably will never understand why you need to dip.

All the exemplars were executed without any lifts...Hence I never saw any improvements...Just a lot of frustrations.

Italic suited me as it really requires lifts  and produced great results for me.

A lesson learned.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 12:14:37 PM by InkyFingers »

Offline InkyFingers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: 32
  • All creations not equal.
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 01:12:46 PM »

Offline InkyFingers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • Karma: 32
  • All creations not equal.
    • View Profile
Re: To lift or not
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 08:25:56 PM »
First...lifting on every basic principle stroke.
Second...don't use a spiral notebook to practice...unless you got nothing else.
Third...Practice, practice, practice...