Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3  (Read 21823 times)

Offline Sue W

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2018, 04:10:56 AM »
@Salman Khattak

Thanks for your speedy response Salman.

Hmm, with my poor eyesight  I'm better to get the tops and bottoms squared as I write, otherwise, they look messy. So yes I will work on that.
Regards consistency, do you mean with letter shapes,  angle of letters, shades or all of these? please.

I've attached the following :

:-)
Sue W

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2018, 12:52:38 PM »
@Sue W

Hi Sue - by consistency I mean getting at least 3 out of 5 good ones in your groups of 5 practice. You are practicing in groups of 5 right?

When writing words, the slant, spacing and weight of the shade should be consistent throughout.

In your last example, you tend to place rounded forms too close together. The 'o' and the 'j' stroke of the 'g' are too close as are the 'e' and 'a' in 'weather'.

The shade of the 't' in 'weather' is heavier than the rest of the letters.

As for squaring the tops, please do square them as you draw a stroke. I did not mean for you to come back to them after writing a word or a line.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Sue W

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2018, 01:34:10 AM »
@Salman Khattak

Hi Salman, thanks for the clarification :)

I'm afraid life is taking over a bit down here. We're in the middle of selling our home and packing to move to a new one, so practice is a bit hard.
I've attached another "try" and await your comments.  Thanks for taking the time :)
Sue W

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2018, 03:00:45 PM »
@Sue W

Hi Sue - by all means put the Calligraphy on the back burner for a time. I took a good long break from my lessons at times when they became frustrating even when I didn't have other distractions.

In the above example, the slant and shapes of the letters are varying a bit too much - the 'a' in 'talon' is much more slanted than the other letters.

Concentrate on the 'a', 'g' and the 'q' for now. You are drawing the 'i' stroke a bit too close to the 'o' in all of these but much more so in the 'g' and the 'q'. Working on this should also help with your spacing. Don't spend more than half an hour on any single exercise session.

Let's see these letters in groups of 5.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Diane Bennett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2018, 04:26:58 PM »
Hello Salman,

I have attached my first attempt at group 3.

I have concentrated on the oval as this was giving me difficulties initially because I was starting at 1 o'clock and struggled to get a neat join, so switched to the headline starting point which I was happier with.

The "q".  Well I knew I was never going to be friends with this letter, but my word, this letter was certainly sent to try the patience of a saint lol, but I will win and we will be friends.

Spacing again I paid attention to and also tried not to get the words to tight.

I look forward to your comments.

Regards

Diane

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2018, 03:00:02 AM »
@Diane Bennett

Good work Diane. I cannot make out a lot of detail at that resolution. Also, the picture is taken at an angle which makes things a bit harder.

Here is what I see:

1. The closing stroke of the 'e' should be more of a hairline. The slight shaded that I added on my 'e' should be very slight - no more than a suggestion. Try it with just a hairline at the start and concentrate on the counter shape which should be an almond shape (kinda like the one in the 'j' loop).

2. The closing stroke of the 'c'  should be as if you are drawing an 'o' but stop at about 1/3rd of the way down from the waist line. The round part is supposed to be inside the counter. The ones in your practice look good but the one in 'dice' doesn't.

Your 'q's look pretty good. The principle is very similar to the 'g' except the shaded stroke now tapers on the right side. It still becomes a hairline by the 1st descender line and the counter shape is still an almond/teardrop shape.

This is a promising start to this group.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Diane Bennett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2018, 12:02:18 PM »
Hi Salman

Sorry about the previous photo.  Hope this one is better.

From your previous feedback I have adjusted the hairline on the 'e' and the dot on the 'c'.

I seem to have got the taper on the 'g' but not the 'q' which I am working on.

I am happier with the spacing although I still need to work on this.

I look forward to you comments.

Regards

Diane

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #82 on: April 06, 2018, 12:58:55 PM »
@Diane Bennett

Very nice Diane. The 'c' and the 'e' are both much better in this exercise.

For the 'q', start the turn at the bottom of the loop on the left side. The 'j' loop benefits from this too (in reverse) - see how you started the turn just a little bit before coming to the lowest part of the loop in both the 'g's in 'gag'. That is what you want to replicate for the 'q'.

Pay attention to the consistency of the 'j' strokes. Both 'g's in both 'gag' and 'gauge' are slightly different.

The 'o', 'a' and 'd' are drawn nicely. One more go and I think you will have this group under your belt.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Diane Bennett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #83 on: April 09, 2018, 10:53:06 AM »
@Salman Khattak

Good afternoon Salman hope you have had a nice weekend.

Practice has been pretty poor for the last few days.  It's the q an g I'm still struggling with, but I am happier with this set, although I still have work to do on them I feel I am making a little progress.

I look forward to your comments.

Regards

Diane

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #84 on: April 09, 2018, 12:14:04 PM »
@Diane Bennett

The hairline stroke on the 'j' stroke is too rounded as it approaches the waist line. Flatten that part of the stroke to more or less match the shape of the thinning shaded stroke so the two sides of the teardrop counter are more balanced.

On the 'q', start the loop by moving to the right at you pass the 1st descender line - that part is too straight all the way down to the very end forcing you to make all of the curved counter shape with just the hairline coming back up. Think reverse of the 'j' loop.

The 'c' looks good but the 'eye' of the 'e' should be a bit bigger - think like making the 'c' but bring the line in rather than drawing the blob.

This is good progress and we are well into the refinement stage now.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Diane Bennett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2018, 07:18:53 AM »
@Salman Khattak

Hello Salman,

I have been trying to implement the chages you suggested in your last feedback.

I am happier with the g but still need to work on the q.

I have attached my practice sheet and look forward to your comments.

Regards

Diane


Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #86 on: April 18, 2018, 12:03:55 PM »
@Diane Bennett

The 'g's in the practice group are indeed very nice. The 'q' takes a little getting used to but once it falls into place you will have it - it is almost like once it clicks, it stays.

Spacing is good but a little tight. You might want to try giving the letters a bit more room to breathe - just a little. Consistency is more important at this stage so it is o.k. if you want to stick with what you have.

The crossbar of the 't' should be slightly longer - the one in 'talon' is too short.

The 'e' looks good but the closing part of the eye should be straighter. Start closing the eye only after you have come down about 1/3 x-height as if making an 'o' and make an almond shape for the counter.

Also, start squaring the tops and bottoms from this point on.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Diane Bennett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2018, 06:59:03 AM »
@Salman Khattak

Good Morning Salman.  Thank you for the previous feedback.

Current practice is attached.  I am much happier with this set especially the q and g.  I am a bit unsure of the eye part in the e, not sure if it is a little to big.

I am trying to amend the spacing, I think the tightness may be because my normal handwriting is tight, but I will work on this issue.

I look forward to your comments.

Diane

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2018, 11:41:07 AM »
@Diane Bennett

Diane - you are pretty much there. The next step is to get the slant of the 'q' and the 'g' to match. It doesn't need to be exactly the same but the 'g's are leaning to the right a bit while the 'q' is leaning to the left (i.e. more upright).

The eye of the 'e' is on the bigger side. It seems like you start drawing the counter shape from the waist line instead of coming down like writing an 'o' and then changing the stroke to close the eye of the 'e' 1/3rd of the way down. Drawing the closing stroke starting at the waist line forces it to have a curve that will result in a rounded shape. Think the counter of the 'j' stroke but at a smaller scale.

The spacing in 'gauge' is good except for the first 'g-a' being a bit too far.

One more try should cover this group for you.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Diane Bennett

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Karma: 7
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2018, 02:12:19 PM »
@Salman Khattak

Hello Salman,

Thank you for your feedback.  Yes, I was starting the E at the waistline, I have done them the way you said and they look much better.

Matching the g & q slant was a little tricky, but I think I got it in the end.  I messed up on the first gauge the g's were way out so re-wrote it.

Look forward to you reply

Diane