Different tools for different writing

[AAAndrew]

I still consider this my handwriting because I'm just writing, not drawing letters. But when you use a stub pen, either fountain or dip, it can make a difference in your writing. There's a reason that stub nibs are so popular with many fountain pen users. It can give you that variation in line width without having to worry about control of the flex and makes even mediocre writing like mine look like something special.

[Jamie]

I tried a stub recently, wondering what all the hullabaloo was about. Especially since I've got a penal now that writes with a stub whose handwriting is gorgeous.

Still don't understand the hype. It didn't really change my handwriting at all. I mean it looked a little different because of the line difference and I had to write bigger to compensate(which I disliked) but it still looked pretty much the same as my usual handwriting. Not any prettier or even more interesting at all, which was disappointing. I don't think my usual style jibes well with a stub, I'd have to actually learn how to handwrite in a different style to take advantage of it.  Might explain a bit why broad pen calligraphy has always come less naturally to me than pointed did.

[AndyT]

I have a fountain pen which does wonders for my ordinary handwriting, and that's a slightly flexible stub.  You'd laugh if you saw it: it's a faded black hard rubber no-name cheapie, with hardly any tipping left and a stress fracture near the breather hole.  It squeaks as I write.  For some reason other pens with similar nibs don't suit me the way this one does, so I suppose it must be magic. 

[Elisabeth_M]

I tried a stub recently, wondering what all the hullabaloo was about. Especially since I've got a penal now that writes with a stub whose handwriting is gorgeous.

Still don't understand the hype. It didn't really change my handwriting at all. I mean it looked a little different because of the line difference and I had to write bigger to compensate(which I disliked) but it still looked pretty much the same as my usual handwriting. Not any prettier or even more interesting at all, which was disappointing. I don't think my usual style jibes well with a stub, I'd have to actually learn how to handwrite in a different style to take advantage of it.  Might explain a bit why broad pen calligraphy has always come less naturally to me than pointed did.

If you have a tendency to write small, I could see that a stub might not be helpful.  Out of curiosity, at what angle was the nib when you tried writing with it?  I find that if I write with it at a 45 degree angle, as though I'm writing Italic letters, makes my everyday writing look nicer, but if I write with the nib parallel to the baseline, it makes my writing look worse.

[Jamie]

I tried a stub recently, wondering what all the hullabaloo was about. Especially since I've got a penal now that writes with a stub whose handwriting is gorgeous.

Still don't understand the hype. It didn't really change my handwriting at all. I mean it looked a little different because of the line difference and I had to write bigger to compensate(which I disliked) but it still looked pretty much the same as my usual handwriting. Not any prettier or even more interesting at all, which was disappointing. I don't think my usual style jibes well with a stub, I'd have to actually learn how to handwrite in a different style to take advantage of it.  Might explain a bit why broad pen calligraphy has always come less naturally to me than pointed did.

If you have a tendency to write small, I could see that a stub might not be helpful.  Out of curiosity, at what angle was the nib when you tried writing with it?  I find that if I write with it at a 45 degree angle, as though I'm writing Italic letters, makes my everyday writing look nicer, but if I write with the nib parallel to the baseline, it makes my writing look worse.

I would try very hard to write at 45 degrees, but I would often keep turning back to parallel with the baseline. Something about the way I write meant that writing with it parallel pulled smoother on the paper than the 45 degrees did. Could be because it was a cheaper stub. But either way it didn't seem to have much of an aesthetic affect on my handwriting.

I write very very small though. Typically I get graph paper, like Rhodia graph paper, and write one line within one 5mm block row of the graph paper.

[evjo]

Huh?  What?  I know nothing.  What is a stub?

[AAAndrew]

With a fountain pen, I tend to write with a stub closer to 45 degrees, but with a dip pen, like the one in the original post, I write with the nib parallel to the line. I writes more smoothly and more easily.

A stub is basically like a broad calligraphy nib, it's cut across the tip rather than coming to a point. Stubs are a little more rounded at the corners, while italic or calligraphy nibs have sharper corners for thinner lines and cleaner edges.

For dip nibs, stubs were originally intended to be used for rapid and easy writing where you didn't really care about being ornamental. They are easier to use when you need to write quickly, and are less tiring than flexible nibs, but you don't have the line control as most stub nibs are pretty firm. There are exceptions, and those rare flexible stub nibs, like the Spencerian Congressional, are really fun, and challenging, to write with.

Stubs also come in different sizes. The Esterbrook 442 Jackson Stub used in my text, is a medium stub. Some are smaller, some are broader, some are sharper and some are rounder and smoother. There can actually be a great deal of variation in stubs. I have quite a few different ones in my collection and started to write out a comparison of dip stubs but got bogged down after about 16 different ones with a bunch more to go.

Some stubs also are cut at an angle, so they are not 90-degrees to the slit of the pen, but can slant one way or another to varying degrees. These are called obliques and can be made this way for several reasons. One main reasons you hear about is if you rotate your nib one way or another. Another reason is for certain kinds of writing styles that were more common in Europe, like the more upright broad-nib styles you sometimes see in Italy or France. I'm sure there are styles in Germany that benefitted from these as most I see sold today are German nibs.

With fountain pens, people like stubs because they do give you a variation in line without using a flexible nib. And again, you have a range from sharp italic grinds on the nibs, to a smoother "butter stub" or some such variation. It takes some getting used to if you're used to writing with a monoline fountain pen nibs because the nibs are pickier about being fully on the paper with both tines evenly applied, hence the obliques.

While you cannot get the level of ornamental writing with a stub nib that you get with even a semi-flex nib, stubs are great for writing out drafts of letters, or notes, or journals, or to dash off an informal note. They do lend at least some character to even mediocre writing because they allow for some variation in line.

I like stubs, and the good ones, like the Esterbrook Jackson 442 and the Esterbrook 314 Relief and the Esterbrook 239 Chancellor, as well as the wonderfully flexible Spencerian Congressional, are worth trying and perhaps adding to your collection for the occasional use when you need to dash something off without caring if it is calligraphy or not. Or, perhaps it's best if you just all continue to ignore them as that helps keep the prices for them lower than for even stiff pointed pens. And that's fine with me. 

Andrew

[Inked botanicals]

I have always liked writing with a fountain pen. I purchase my first one when I was a child and used it to do my homework at home because teachers did not let me use it at school. Now I have a grownup Lamy Joy with a 1.1 mm stud nib. It makes my handwriting look more interesting than a normal rollerball. People look at me with a "ohhhh how fancy!" all over their face. The long black body of the lamy helps too! Lamys have a design with (I don't know if this is the correct word...) indentations for your fingers that makes quite difficult to rotate the pen, so it is very easy to write at 45 degrees all time without even noticing.

[AAAndrew]

Here's another example. On the left I used a fine stub, and on the right a pointed pen. Different experiences, different looks, both fun.

[Entropy]

It's good to know I'm not the only one who enjoys stub nibs for everyday writing. Maybe it defeats the point a little but I actually find that some are more to my liking after I've sharpened up the edges on crocus cloth or a very fine grit waterstone. My personal favorites right now are a rikkers 15 which I polished up to a mirrored writing surface and, for tiny italics, a slightly worn in Esterbrook 509 that I use for my everyday scribbles.

[AAAndrew]

According to this little article/advertisement about stub nibs, they were originally introduced because it is difficult to write quickly with pointed pens, so those who write a lot were looking for a pen that was as rapid and easy to write with as a quill, but with the durability of a steel pen. Thus, the stub. And the turned-up point.

American Stationer
Feb 12, 1891, page 331

Turned Up Point Pens
   The first steel pens made in Birmingham about the year 1837, while providing a ready made instrument for penmen, failed to give that ease in writing which was the characteristic of the old quill. They were uniformly fine pointed and naturally more or less scratchy. The remedy for this was not found until a generation later, when the demand for an easier writing pen because imperative. Manufacturers began to make them with blunt and broad points.
   In 1871 the Esterbrook Steel Pen Company made its first stub pen, No. 161, and now the company has as many as eighteen numbers of stub pens on its catalogue. This did not completely satisfy the demands until the happy idea occurred to turn up the points. This rendered the evolution of the pen complete.
   In 1876 the Esterbrook Steel Pen Company produced its 1876 Telegraphic, followed shortly after by No. 256 Tecumseh, and No. 309 Choctaw. At the special request of many the Falcon pen was made in this style. Another pen has now been added to the list, and is known as No. 477 Postal. This is a size larger than the Choctaw, with finer points.
   The perfect ease afforded by these pens contributes one of the most valuable luxuries provided for writers at this end of the century. The penman can write longer with less fatigue than with the ordinary styles. The tediousness of writing is almost entirely avoided, and the relief is so complete that it converts a drudgery into a delight and a pain into a pleasure, and anyone who has taken up one of these turned up point pens for a companion will never consent to be without it.

Just a side note, Esterbrook tried to take credit for introducing the idea of a stub falcon, though Leon Isaacs of Philadelphia had introduced their #12 stub falcon two years before the introduction of the Esterbrook #442 Jackson Stub. Leon Isaccs & Co. had even trademarked the terms "Falcon Stub" and "Stub Falcon" so you never see those words in Esterbrook advertising until long after Leon Isaacs was bought by Turner & Harrison. They're not even in this faux news story above. This article was written just two years after the #442 came out so I'm sure the wound was still fresh with the Leon Isaacs company. (it didn't help that Esterbrook introduced the Jackson stub the month after that Leon Isaacs died, so it took about two months for the company to respond in print that they had invented the falcon stub first and actually owned the terms, but that's another whole story of a terrible year in the history of Leon Isaacs & Co.)

[James P]

I have used regular iridium tipped fountain pens to render Chancery cursive (Italic) writing on occasion with reasonable success. The letter forms may not be as crisp or well formed as those produced using edged nibs, but with a light pen hold and delicate execution the writing can be fairly elegant as illustrated in the following exemplars:

James

[Mimi]

With a fountain pen, I tend to write with a stub closer to 45 degrees, but with a dip pen, like the one in the original post, I write with the nib parallel to the line. I writes more smoothly and more easily.

A stub is basically like a broad calligraphy nib, it's cut across the tip rather than coming to a point. Stubs are a little more rounded at the corners, while italic or calligraphy nibs have sharper corners for thinner lines and cleaner edges.

For dip nibs, stubs were originally intended to be used for rapid and easy writing where you didn't really care about being ornamental. They are easier to use when you need to write quickly, and are less tiring than flexible nibs, but you don't have the line control as most stub nibs are pretty firm. There are exceptions, and those rare flexible stub nibs, like the Spencerian Congressional, are really fun, and challenging, to write with.

Stubs also come in different sizes. The Esterbrook 442 Jackson Stub used in my text, is a medium stub. Some are smaller, some are broader, some are sharper and some are rounder and smoother. There can actually be a great deal of variation in stubs. I have quite a few different ones in my collection and started to write out a comparison of dip stubs but got bogged down after about 16 different ones with a bunch more to go.

Some stubs also are cut at an angle, so they are not 90-degrees to the slit of the pen, but can slant one way or another to varying degrees. These are called obliques and can be made this way for several reasons. One main reasons you hear about is if you rotate your nib one way or another. Another reason is for certain kinds of writing styles that were more common in Europe, like the more upright broad-nib styles you sometimes see in Italy or France. I'm sure there are styles in Germany that benefitted from these as most I see sold today are German nibs.

With fountain pens, people like stubs because they do give you a variation in line without using a flexible nib. And again, you have a range from sharp italic grinds on the nibs, to a smoother "butter stub" or some such variation. It takes some getting used to if you're used to writing with a monoline fountain pen nibs because the nibs are pickier about being fully on the paper with both tines evenly applied, hence the obliques.

While you cannot get the level of ornamental writing with a stub nib that you get with even a semi-flex nib, stubs are great for writing out drafts of letters, or notes, or journals, or to dash off an informal note. They do lend at least some character to even mediocre writing because they allow for some variation in line.

I like stubs, and the good ones, like the Esterbrook Jackson 442 and the Esterbrook 314 Relief and the Esterbrook 239 Chancellor, as well as the wonderfully flexible Spencerian Congressional, are worth trying and perhaps adding to your collection for the occasional use when you need to dash something off without caring if it is calligraphy or not. Or, perhaps it's best if you just all continue to ignore them as that helps keep the prices for them lower than for even stiff pointed pens. And that's fine with me. 

Andrew

Thanks for this! It's extremely helpful especially since I've never used a stub or a fountain pen before. I'm looking into fountain pens for the near future. Do you have any suggestions of good fountain pens?

[AndyT]

Do you have any suggestions of good fountain pens?

I hope I may be allowed to deposit my tuppence worth here, since I have strong views on this.

The fountain pen market is crazy.  Really.  If you want to spend $1000 there are plenty of options, and no guarantee whatsoever that the product you buy will perform any better than something costing $30.  I've yet to hear a single report of a humble Pilot Metropolitan malfunctioning, but there's a certain very prestigious manufacturer which routinely sells pens with skippy nibs, and if you have the temerity to complain, they'll tell you that's how they should be.

Somewhere there's a cut-off point, where you stop paying for writing performance and start getting into the realms of pretty barrels, novel mechanisms and pixie dust, frankly.  It's probably around the Lamy 2000 or Pelikan M400 level, both of which can usually be had for something like $150.  There are, however, very decent pens available for a lot less, mostly of far Eastern origin.  So, if you're a big spender, to some extent pushing the boat out might buy you a better writing experience, but most of the time it'll just buy you bling.

Since this is a calligraphy forum, one assumes that your intention is to use a fountain pen for that purpose at least some of the time.  Unless business writing is your thing you'll be wanting to get line variation either with a flexible or broad nib.  This being a thread about stubs I'll concentrate on the latter, but suffice it to say that there are no modern flexible nibs on the market at any price which can compete with old ones made before about 1940, say.  There are various threads on the subject: my advice in brief is to start looking for a suitable vintage pen, or else buy cheap and accept the limitations.

There are various different styles of broad nib.  You may see them advertised as sharp, crisp, formal or cursive Italic, and also as stubs.  The first three versions are generally ground with either sharp or minimally broken corners, giving a crisper appearance to the writing and a more troublesome experience if you have a tendency to twist the pen.  Very often they have no durable tipping material on the nib, and need re-sharpening every once in a while.  Cursive Italics and stubs are usually tipped and have softer corners, resulting in easier, faster writing and no maintenance issues worth mentioning.  A good stub will cost more than a good sharp nib nine times out of ten, and if your intentions are calligraphic you'll get better results with the latter.  However, if it's just a case of prettying up your handwriting, those sharp corners are going to be an annoyance, like as not.  You can always buy a crisp nib and blunt the corners yourself.

Now for some recommendations.  If you want a stub or cursive Italic, many mainstream manufacturers have them available as an option.  Kaweco's are unusual in that they're not tipped, but they're nice easy writers.  Italix are particularly well regarded, if you can stand a heavy pen (I cannot).  You probably won't go far wrong with pretty much anything, but be aware that broad nibs are sometimes susceptible to ink flow issues if the feed isn't adequate: you should be prepared to experiment with different inks if this happens.

Crisp Italics are one of the few genuine bargains in the fountain pen world (and you can always soften them as mentioned above).  Have a look at some of Ken Fraser's broad edge exemplars: many of them are written with a fountain pen.  The great thing is that these calligraphy pens are invariably priced very reasonably.  There's a set by Manuscript which includes half a dozen different nib units which retails in the UK for around £15: add a small sharpening stone at a later date and that will serve you well for a long time.  There are slightly more upmarket (but still affordable) options available from Rotring, Lamy, and doubtless some others.

The point I particularly want to get across is that fountain pens are in fashion at the moment and it's big business.  There are plenty of people who will tell you that you need to spend $$$ to get a good one, but that's only true if you're interested in fripperies rather than a decent writer.  Here, with the benefit of a lot of hindsight, is how I'd spend my money:

Crisp Italic: Manuscript Deluxe Calligraphy set with six nib units - £15
Cursive Italic: Kaweco Classic Sport Calligraphy Pen (choice of four nib widths) - £18
Flexible: scruffy but serviceable vintage Waterman or Mabie Todd - £30 - £50

[James P]