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Messages - GretchenC

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Another fantastic source for Mills' instruction is Penman's Art Journal, available (and searchable) on Archive.org   Some of the articles are geared more towards beginners, others are towards more advanced students.  Because many of these series were monthly publications, I think there is a bit more explanation in them than in the book (which I also have).   There is also an absolutely astounding series of over 300 plates (I think actually over 400!) in the PAJ, Vol 23.   It starts with very basic movement exercises, and then proceeds into letters.   I think that this is an invaluable supplement to his two books, and provides further examples of his writing, various connections, drills, etc.   I was excited to discover all of this last night.  :)

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: April 08, 2018, 08:14:25 PM »
@Salman Khattak ,

Your "i" video is fantastic, thank you!!    I have been continuing to work, but nothing yet to post.   Life's been a bit crazy the past few weeks.  Hopefully this week I'll have something ready.   

I can now start to feel the difference in my grip, posture, etc when things look good, and when they don't.  I've been trying to pay attention to the small details of "how am I sitting," "how far is the paper from me," "how tightly am I gripping the pen" to develop more consistency.   I find making letters far more easy when I can keep my grip on the pen to an absolute minimum of pressure.   Not in how hard I press down on the pen, but rather, how tightly especially my thumb is on the holder itself.  :)


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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: March 21, 2018, 11:28:37 PM »
Hi Salman!

I did not give up, I have just not had anything worthy of sharing.  I feel that I spent a week or two making no progress.   However, I think I'm finally on the right path, having found a nib I really like:  the Hunt 22.    I worked again with the Brause, but feel that my shades are very inconsistant, and my U's were also just not right.   The w's were a disaster.   

The Hunt 22 seems to glide beautifully and is a bit more stiff.  I also use it in a different holder, and I think I like this holder better, so that may be part of it.   I think my hairlines are more fine with the hunt, and it never skips on the exit stroke like the Brause does. :)

I still think that my letters from one to the next are very inconsistent, however, within a U or W, I think I'm finally starting to see the shades look similar.   I know with the W that my exit strokes are often too wide/round and I'm working on that.

Look forward to your thoughts and suggestions! :)

Thank you,
Gretchen

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: March 07, 2018, 08:04:11 PM »
Good evening @jeanwilson and @Salman Khattak:)

Thank you both for your comments and thoughts.    I was so excited to get started this evening that I forgot my guard sheet.   I definitely agree, I think something is on my sleeve and getting onto my paper.   I often wear fleece at this time of year, and I think the oils from cooking stay on my sleeves.   I notice that the issues with the ink "sticking" to the paper happen only on the right side of the paper.  The far end of rows 5 (a lot), 6 (one w shows it) and 8.    That is where my right arm is resting when I'm writing up at the top of the page.    Thank you so much for helping me figure this out!! :)

My focus today was a better shape to the bottom of the shade, and then consistency.   This was my 2nd try at a submission page.  My warm up page was rough, progressing to good, with regards to consistency.   The first page I attempted for submission got worse as it went along.   I changed my fingers just a hint towards the end, and I think that gave me a bit better control.   I was keeping my first finger very straight, after a thread I saw on FF in which Salman posted a photo re: keeping the finger straight, not tight.    I ended up bending it a bit more and I think my control is better.  Still working to keep loose grip, loose shoulders and not haunch over. :)

My selections are based mostly on:  shape of shade as it comes to baseline and 'evenness' of the two i's in the U and W.   I recognize that many of my U's look much more like 2 i's, I am still not solid on gauging my pen start location relative to the exit hairline from the first part of the letter.  It will come. :)

I tried to be slower in my strokes.  It's a whole mantra, and the kids are not allowed to come talk to me as I work.   ;D   "Up, down, get off it!, up straight"   i have lots of curving exit hairlines, something I'm trying to work on. 

This is the Brause 66EF (which I love!) and Higgins Eternal ink on HP paper.

Look forward to your thoughts!

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: March 05, 2018, 11:10:31 AM »
Thank you @Salman Khattak  and @jeanwilson for your suggestions!

I am using a recommended 28lb "high end" printer paper (I'm too lazy to run backdownstairs to see it's exact name.....its one by HP that many like). :)   

It seemed to run better last night, though something quite odd happened at one point.   On one of the last lines of "w," it suddenly felt like the paper or my nib was waxed.....i.e. like trying to write with a sharpie on wax paper.  The ink wouldn't stay, the pen felt extra slick across the surface.  Utterly bizarre!   On my paper, you'll see a series of 2-3 entry strokes that look faint, that is when it started and I was trying to clear the pen.   Then on a W, the ink started at the top of the shade and just pulled down the length of the shade, like a blob.   It was really odd.   Please know that I'm NOT complaining, just rather marveling.  I'm a scientist by nature and training....critical observation is my fiber. :) :)

My focus last night was on two things:  trying to get all my letters to sit on the line (vs floating or hanging below) and trying to lift on the pen, as approaching the baseline in a shade, at the appropriate time.   I see many shades where I stay on the pen too long and then it's a sudden up (and ugly!), or if I'm really focusing on getting off the pen, then my letters float.    Again, not complaining or frustrated, observations.  :)

My submission is below.  It's 'rules' are as follows:  i's had to earn their dot.   If the shade was floating (and I caught it in time), no exit stroke.  Break off the chain of incorrect behavior (rules of dog training!).    After the row was complete, I tried to critically examine for "not floating, entry/exit stroke, not too round nor narrow" and then if happy with those, the i could receive it's dot.  :)   So those are the ones I chose.

U's were a bit more tricky, I saw many uneven entrance strokes from shade 1 to shade 2, as well as trying to not float shade 2 (because my mind was racing ahead to the exit hairline).   I underlined the ones that I liked.  When I made 5 in a row, I think they were far too narrow.

W's.....well, they're entertaining at best :)  I love making this letter, but my inconsistancy really showed up here. :)

Look forward to your thoughts.   This was done with Hunt 101 and Higgins Eternal.   I will try Hunt 22 tonight, I have a pack of them.  May also wander back to the Brause 66EF and see if I can get the shades thick enough for instruction.   :)

Thank you @Salman, this really is an amazing resource and I am loving the challenge!!  :)

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: March 04, 2018, 01:10:50 PM »
@Salman Khattak , thank you so much for your detailed reply, it is very helpful! :)

I practiced yesterday, but nothing worthy of posting came of it.   I went back to the Hunt 101 for the wider shade and was really struggling with the ink.   I could make 1 "i" and then the ink would be gone.   This happened over and over, to the point of great frustration on my part.

I have a brand new bottle of Higgins eternal ink.   I added 2-3 drops of gum arabic as suggested.    Because I wondered if the ink was too thin, I added probably 4-6 more drops  to the bottle.  Still, the ink does not stay on the nib very well.   I can get maybe 2-3 letters.   This made it very difficult to develop any rhythm, and as a result, my i's were a disaster.

The only ink that I can seem to use with the Hunt 101 is Blot's Iron Gall, but I know that eats the nibs.   Thoughts on the Higgins?   Should I pour out a portion of it and add more gum arabic?

I am hoping today's practice will be more fruitful, but did not want you to think I hadn't read or appreciated your thoughtful post.  :)

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Just got my bottle of Higgins eternal today, and hoping I'll get more than 5-6hrs out of my 303's.  I probably do have a heavier hand than desired, but it is something I'm working hard on.   Paying particular attention to my posture and my grip.   Just received my copy of Bill Hildebrandt's Calligraphic Flourishing and he talks a lot about arm position.   Look forward to experimenting with that tonight.  :)

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: February 28, 2018, 09:53:38 PM »
Spent a lot of time reading through this thread, and looking at what you commented on each post.  Really helping me develop my eye, what a wonderful resource.    Here is tonight's practice.   

Things that are challenging me:
1. I am not consistent in bringing the next letter in to the entry stroke.  Typically, I am too close, and then it looks like the hairline is entering the bottom of the next letter.   I'm trying to find a visual mark on the nib, something to line up, so that I will know if I've started over far enough.

2.  the letter J.  Eek!   The loop is a very awkward/unnatural movement for me, and so of course, my shape is all over the map, often having a flat bottom.

3.  In trying to fix #1, I've gone a bit far the opposite direction, and now am starting to see many non-joins.   ::)

Look forward to your thoughts when life settles down. :)

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I tried again tonight and was still getting so much skipping.  I decided to try a fresh nib, and voila!  Much smoother.  This was a Gillott 303.   I feel like I'm going through nibs quickly, and guessing it's a combo of novice hand and iron gall ink?   I have other ink on order, hoping it arrives by weekend.  :)

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Thank you so much!  I will do that.  :)

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Open Flourish | General Discussion / Troubleshoot skipping on the upstroke
« on: February 28, 2018, 09:22:56 AM »
Good morning,

I'm working on Salman's tutorials for Copperplate.  I am new to pointed pen and still learning what combos seem to be my best fit (at least for now). Last night as I was practicing, I suddenly was having a lot of problems with skipping on my upstrokes (exit hairlines).   I suspect the biggest issue was fatigue.  Aside from that, I tried:   pen angle to paper, more ink, less ink, freshly cleaned nib and didn't seem to solve it.   Any other thoughts on things to consider?

Thank you much! :)

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3
« on: February 28, 2018, 09:19:14 AM »
Thank you so much for your concern Sue. I am sorry for disappearing. I have been a bit preoccupied with some life challenges. I will be getting back to these lessons soon. I hope to be able to provide feedback in a day or two.

Salman

Hoping things turn around for you quickly!   I can say, even as a total novice, I have been reading through the 27 pages of Lesson 1, and learning a lot from your comments of others.  :)   My eye is developing, I can self-critique, and I see what I need to fix.   We will be here when you are ready, but focus on you first!   :)

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Flourishing / Re: Fourishing: practice sheets?
« on: February 26, 2018, 04:14:53 PM »
Currently available on Amazon for $60

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: February 26, 2018, 11:08:33 AM »
Good morning!

I could not help myself but try to get started.   I really should be out dog walking my clients, but this was more fun! :)    It is abbreviated because of time.

This is my 4th day of pointed pen and Copperplate, there is much to improve.   I was really struggling with underturns and tending to stay on the baseline, creating a flat curve.   Your suggestion to pick up the pen at the bottom of the main downstroke was genius and I already see improvement! :)

What I see:  my counters are too narrow.  This is an 8mm sheet (I will print the 1/4" ones for later), and if I am measuring correctly, these are about 3mm.  I need consistency in my counters, they are irregular.   I do feel that I'm doing a better job at returning to baseline, fewer floating letters.   My slant wanders quickly, as though a drunk built a picket fence.   :P    I really need to focus on that more.   

I chose the ones I thought were best and marked with a blue sharpie.   Notes are scrawled in the margins and below.   I am analytical by nature, and a scientist by training.  I think this can be my biggest hindrance because instead of just feeling the letter, I am thinking the whole way through it:  "Square the top, pull down evenly, start letting up, lift pen, reconnect, relax your right shoulder, get your weight onto your left arm......oh man, my slant is a mess!"    ;D ;D    I look forward to your comments and critique.

Please ignore the red at the top, that was from a few days ago.   For this lesson, I purposely chose the "yucky" Hunt 101.  It was a much kinder partner with the Iron Gall ink than the McCaffery's. 

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Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Introduction (please read this first)
« on: February 26, 2018, 09:58:17 AM »
Hello Salman,

Erica pointed me to your tutorials and I look forward to starting.  I've been working on Copperplate via the EW book and the Zanerian manual (online) for a whole 3 days now.    ;D     I recently found a post of yours discussing holding the pen with the forefinger more straight.  I tried that yesterday and found it really helped with trying to develop a lighter hand, thank you! :)

I have a whole army of nibs already, trying out just about any that have been recommended for Copperplate.   I like the Brause 66EF, and also the Zebra G.    I am planning to try Nikko G today, and re-visit Hunt 22.    I love Moonpalace Sumi ink, and also Blot's Iron Gall.    The McCaffery's seemed runny to me (after using Sumi) but I have tried again and it is growing on me.  :)

I look forward to learning.  I must admit I am ZERO in the 'artistic ability' category.  If you asked me to draw anything more than a stick figure, you would find me crying in a corner.   ::)   But I LOVE calligraphy and 20+ years ago, I used a broad nib kit to do our wedding invitations.  I know I can tackle the challenges of Copperplate, it is so pleasing to the eye.    Just know that my brain is very analytical and I ask a lot of silly detail questions not to criticize, but to try to learn.   I know art does not always have the answers my brain wants, and I'm ok with that.  :)

Best,
Gretchen

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