Flourish Forum
Forum Info & Support => Flourish Forum News => Topic started by: Erica McPhee on August 17, 2014, 11:08:02 AM
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Hello all!
Just wanted to notify you, I have changed a few of the topics around. The following Topics are now in the "Pro Level" board:
Closed Flourish | For Members Only
Letter Business
Wedding Calligraphy
Now that we have grown quite a bit, I feel it is in the best interest for those of you pursuing calligraphy as a business for some of our topics to be for registered members only. This means you will need to be logged in to view these topics. While I still want to encourage discussion about running a calligraphy business, I also want to remain respectful to proprietary information. If I find the discussion too disclosing, I will consider creating a closed section with membership granted by permission only for those who are in business.
As always, I am open to suggestions and feedback. :)
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erica - i think this is a great idea. admittedly, i am a bit uncomfortable that i just posted what i charge, and i hope it will not spark a debate on fees, as it is a touchy subject. but one that does need to be discussed - between professionals.
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Thanks joi! No need to feel uncomfortable. I've never felt charges are secret - I used to have mine prominently displayed on my website. To me, nothing is more irritating than pursuing something only to find out half way in I can't afford it! I'd much rather be upfront.
However, with that said, as you saw, fees are a touchy subject for a variety of reasons. But hopefully, we can have open discourse about it. The fine line is when people are unsure how to arrive at those fees and need educating on how to go about developing their fee structure. I would prefer to address those questions privately.
We'll see how it goes! :)
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If I find the discussion too disclosing, I will consider creating a closed section with membership granted by permission only for those who are in business.
Hello Erica,
let me say first that I totally agree with your change and perspective regarding the pros threads.
I'm wondering how you will distinguish who is in a business from who's not (or worst lying about it); of course I'm talking about internationals.
Take me for example: I have my shop on Etsy where I put some of my works for sale and I make sales through direct contacts. I'm allowed by the Italian Fiscal Law to make business without a registered company up to a total yearly amount of some thousands Euros, so you will not see the name of my company on my blog or website because I don't need to run a company now that my business is a start-up. Yet, I'm on business.
I apologize if my question sounds silly, maybe I didn't understand your statement as it was originally intended.
Thanks!
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Hello all!
If I find the discussion too disclosing, I will consider creating a closed section with membership granted by permission only for those who are in business.
As always, I am open to suggestions and feedback. :)
Hi Erica,
I'm unclear exactly what this means. Is there some information or topic that only professionals would be able to see?
BTW, Received my copy of Dasherie and read it through today--absolutely terrific.
Mike
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Hi Cecilia and Mike,
For the time being, I will leave it as is - anyone who is a registered member can view the boards once signed in. However, those who aren't members and aren't signed in, cannot see it. This prevents the casual web viewer from instantly viewing the information.
If we find there are topics people want to discuss which relate to the business of calligraphy that people would prefer potential clients do not see, we can decide if a "members-only by approval" section is needed. Discussing pricing is one of those topics that is very helpful to professionals or those looking to become pro but we might not want potential clients to view.
Cecilia, in terms of determining who is "in business," or even "wanting to get into business" I would have to determine a criteria such as: has an established website, has an Etsy shop, has an online portfolio, etc. And it may not only be who is "in business" but also what level of member they are. So for example, if someone is a "Full Member" with 100 posts or more, they would be granted access. It would basically just be to keep proprietary business information from being accessible willy nilly.
But we will cross that bridge when (or if) we get to it. And like I said, I am always open to suggestions/ideas.
Mike, thanks so much on the feedback regarding Dasherie! You made my night! ;D
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So thoughtful as always, Erica! :D
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Maybe distinctions within the distinction of 'Pro' is also warranted--some who do business as calligraphers are also graphic artists and designers, and some simply do calligraphy. I'm glad you're going to leave it as is for the moment, because by the time you think a change is truly needed, maybe I'll be in business, too.
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I completely understand the logic of all this and agree, particularly with the members only access. Not that I'm anywhere near a professional level yet, I would love to get to be one day (it may become my plan B if research doesn't pan out the way I hope...or at least begin as a side business...perhaps after I have another couple of years under my belt). In the meantime, I do enjoy reading about how the calligraphy business works, and have been learning a lot about the logistics. Would hate to lose that. That said, I would totally understand, and support, any decision you choose to do down the road. :)
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I completely understand the logic of all this and agree, particularly with the members only access. Not that I'm anywhere near a professional level yet, I would love to get to be one day (it may become my plan B if research doesn't pan out the way I hope...or at least begin as a side business...perhaps after I have another couple of years under my belt). In the meantime, I do enjoy reading about how the calligraphy business works, and have been learning a lot about the logistics. Would hate to lose that. That said, I would totally understand, and support, any decision you choose to do down the road. :)
Ditto to everything Starlee said -- this is my situation exactly.
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I think it might be nice to have a 'professional calligraphers only' section - it's definitely good to be able to discuss industry matters without clients. I'm sure you could give access on a case by case basis - obviously you know most of us here already, and you could just ask newcomers to show their website or their registered details.
(I'm in business as of TODAY!! I just registered my business name, and I'll be building myself a website this weekend :D So exciting!)
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(I'm in business as of TODAY!! I just registered my business name, and I'll be building myself a website this weekend :D So exciting!)
How exciting, Moya! Congrats!
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I think it might be nice to have a 'professional calligraphers only' section - it's definitely good to be able to discuss industry matters without clients. I'm sure you could give access on a case by case basis - obviously you know most of us here already, and you could just ask newcomers to show their website or their registered details.
(I'm in business as of TODAY!! I just registered my business name, and I'll be building myself a website this weekend :D So exciting!)
Congratulations, Moya! That is so exciting! Keep us updated :D
Also, I think I get what Erica is going for here. If I were getting married, say, and I got a quote from a calligrapher that I thought was way too expensive OR maybe I'm developing a budget for calligraphy in my wedding, I would Google "how much do calligraphers charge." A thread on the Flourish Forum might pop up, and since it's public I can read through everything without being a forum member. Or, I could make an account and peruse to get more info. That's not sinister (although there could be people who make it so), but it does put calligraphers on the forum in an awkward and exposed position. Am I on track with that?
You keep this forum in tip-top shape, Erica! Whatever you gotta do, do it.
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And it may not only be who is "in business" but also what level of member they are. So for example, if someone is a "Full Member" with 100 posts or more, they would be granted access.
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I guess I'd better stop lurking and start posting in preparation ;)
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I guess I'd better stop lurking and start posting in preparation ;)
One of us! one of us! one of us! ;)
Also, I think I get what Erica is going for here. If I were getting married, say, and I got a quote from a calligrapher that I thought was way too expensive OR maybe I'm developing a budget for calligraphy in my wedding, I would Google "how much do calligraphers charge." A thread on the Flourish Forum might pop up, and since it's public I can read through everything without being a forum member. Or, I could make an account and peruse to get more info. That's not sinister (although there could be people who make it so), but it does put calligraphers on the forum in an awkward and exposed position. Am I on track with that?
That's exactly what I'm thinking, Briana :) Already I've seen Flourish threads pop up in my occasional searches on similar topics. I think it's almost necessary to have a place we can talk with a controlled audience!
Also, thank you for the encouragement! It's a little step, but an exciting one :D
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Congrats Moya! Fabulous!!!
Briana - that is it exactly! Great example!
I'm definitely thinking more about this. ;)
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I think it might be nice to have a 'professional calligraphers only' section - it's definitely good to be able to discuss industry matters without clients. I'm sure you could give access on a case by case basis - obviously you know most of us here already, and you could just ask newcomers to show their website or their registered details.
(I'm in business as of TODAY!! I just registered my business name, and I'll be building myself a website this weekend :D So exciting!)
Way to go MOYA!!!!
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I am absorbing all of the information from everyone too. Thank you to all who share, it is so informative. I too will lurk less and contribute more :)
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sooooo.... mentions of the as yet uncreated pro-level board keep cropping up in other threads and so far I've sat on my hands and kept my council.
But, I do have an opinion on it and it seems to go against the majority view expressed here :(
I've gotta say that it really worries me that a lovely, inclusive forum like this is considering closing some of its doors to certain participants. I can understand the rationale behind it, such as the example Briana provided, but I think that by creating a paid only board that only certain people are allowed to join encourages an 'us' and 'them' situation which I feel is precisely what Erica wished to avoid by creating this forum. (please correct me if I'm wrong Erica)
I appreciate the current solution is a lot of hard work, moderating threads all by yourself must be a pretty thankless task Erica, but I would be so sad to see a private board here, it would be like knowing there's a party on that you haven't been invited to!
To offer alternative solutions could you open the administration of this forum to other moderators? Or make this a paid forum for ALL members (lol, I know this won't be popular! ;)).
However I feel that for you it's not really about the money, or this forum would have advertising all over it ;D. What I understand is that you care deeply about protecting your colleagues in this field whilst at the same time wanting to make the written word accessible to all.
Perhaps a paid board is the only solution, and ultimately I have very little influence about what goes on here, but I just wanted to put my feelings out there.
Happy to discuss...
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Hi Cecilia and Mike,
For the time being, I will leave it as is - anyone who is a registered member can view the boards once signed in. However, those who aren't members and aren't signed in, cannot see it. This prevents the casual web viewer from instantly viewing the information.
If we find there are topics people want to discuss which relate to the business of calligraphy that people would prefer potential clients do not see, we can decide if a "members-only by approval" section is needed. Discussing pricing is one of those topics that is very helpful to professionals or those looking to become pro but we might not want potential clients to view.
Cecilia, in terms of determining who is "in business," or even "wanting to get into business" I would have to determine a criteria such as: has an established website, has an Etsy shop, has an online portfolio, etc. And it may not only be who is "in business" but also what level of member they are. So for example, if someone is a "Full Member" with 100 posts or more, they would be granted access. It would basically just be to keep proprietary business information from being accessible willy nilly.
Phew! At the moment I don't have plans to be in business in any serious way, but I don't want to rule that out after I feel a greater level of confidence that I could give clients what they deserve for paying me. But I learn something from all the 'pro's' all the time, certainly about what to consider should I hang a shingle.
But we will cross that bridge when (or if) we get to it. And like I said, I am always open to suggestions/ideas.
Mike, thanks so much on the feedback regarding Dasherie! You made my night! ;D
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Yes, I was aware of how things currently stand , ie under consideration and as yet not to be implemented, and read this thread quite carefully before considering my post.
However, as I said, mentions of the pro-level board keep cropping up and I feel that this opinion is one that has yet to be voiced in the discussion, and I felt the need to voice it, even if I'm in the minority! ;D
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Nikki,
I appreciate your voice on this and I understand your feelings. I am extremely sensitive to anything exclusionary.
Yes, it is a matter of balancing the interests of the professional calligraphy community. It is not at all about not inviting or excluding.
There are certain things business members would like or need to discuss that are considered proprietary information. And it's not a matter of keeping it from other calligraphers but not things professionals discuss or share with (or in front of) clients or potential clients. There are professional organizations for this reason and I think Flourish is a perfect way to facilitate this. To talk about business matters in an open forum is ... well ... just bad business.
I witnessed some pretty ugly showdowns on a photography forum I was a member on many years ago between photographers and their clients that I would never want played out here.
One thing is clear. We have grown at a very rapid rate and continue to grow at about 30 new member requests every single day. At any given time, I have over 2,000 unread Flourish emails and I have 4,000 unread personal emails. I cannot keep up (or ever catch up!). I can and will ask for help with moderation at some point. I am just being cautious in terms of protecting our forum and trying to determine what is sensible and in our best interest.
In terms of accessing, I'm more concerned about a member's investment in our community (like minimum Junior Member) versus their business or calligraphy level. Why should those who make no contribution to the forum be given access to the hard work of those who share? It is also less likely a potential client would take the time to "talk calligraphy" for 50 posts in order to find out information about calligrapher's business practices!
Lastly, the only topics within that section would be business & wedding calligraphy.
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Thanks for addressing my concerns Erica,
You've certainly put my mind at rest regarding this issue.