Curious about Plume Gauloise No. 750 EF

[Krapprot]

I recently ordered a small lot of a vintage nib called Plume Gauloise No. 750EF by Sommerville & Co.   It appears to be virtually identical to the Blanzy-Poure
"Departmentale Cementée" n°2552.   Have any of you written with both?   If so, are they comparable nibs in quality?  Same ink-holding ability and hairlines?

  (750EF)

  (2552)

Thanks in advance for any feedback.


K

[Tales from the Nib]

I've not tried the 750, but have used the 2552, I'd like to know too.
Why are there two nibs almost identical ? I've noticed this with others too, two different makers, yet the nibs took identical.
I wonder why this is. ?

[AAAndrew]

You find the same nib shapes made by all of the main manufacturers. Unique shapes are very rare. If something was made by one company, and it sold, then it was eventually made by most everyone else.

One of these days I want to compile a list of standard names for shapes. Some already have names, like the falcon and spoon nibs, but most are variations on some generic shape. I'd be curious to know if some of these already have names in calligraphy circles. I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

In general, when I see the shape above it's going to be flexible, but the degree of flex, and sharpness can vary a surprising amount. The shape itself will not allow for a lot of ink to be held, so the shape determines (within the constraints of size) the amount of ink the nib can hold.

Sometimes the shape can give you a general idea of performance just because of either the nature of the material (long, thin tines will most likely be flexible to some degree) as well as expectations from the customers, like the examples you show. It would be possible to make one of these very stiff, but the shape is associated with some level of flexibility, so it will almost inevitably be so.

When a shape violates the expectation, the maker would usually indicate so in the name, like the Hunt 98 Stiff Falcon.

The fact that the name includes "EF" almost always indicates a very fine hairline, as well as some degree of flexibility. How these two directly compare, I couldn't tell you, but I would be surprised if the 750EF was anything else but flexible and draws a fine line.

[Tales from the Nib]

Andrew, please post if you do compile this list, I'd be interested in reading it 

[AAAndrew]

I'll definitely bring it to this group first, and plumb it for as much information I can steal share. 

[Tales from the Nib]

Awesome, thank you so much, that will be fantastic 

[Doesy]

Andrew, I've decided that you are the pen nib whisperer because you have this uncanny 6th sense about pen nibs.

I finally gave up on trying to decipher my notes about Sommerville's plume Gauloise 750ef and finally just found my little box of nibs and did a direct comparison with Blanzy's 2552. I'm definitely not an expert in anything relating to calligraphy so my comparison is limited and very subjective (so your mileage may vary    ). I found that while the Gauloise was slightly less flexible than the 2552 it gave a much finer line. The "snap" of the Gauloise was very similar to the 2552 but maybe just a little bit softer. After using the Gauloise for awhile I finally remembered why I had tucked the box away. I really like them and I only have a small number so I wanted to save them. I will have to hide them from myself again.

[Krapprot]

One of these days I want to compile a list of standard names for shapes. Some already have names, like the falcon and spoon nibs, but most are variations on some generic shape. I'd be curious to know if some of these already have names in calligraphy circles. I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

Andrew, please DO.   I manage my nibs via a spreadsheet and have no type or style by which to refer to many of them other than "Long & Lean" as described on the IAMPETH site, and that category encompasses way too many styles of nibs.   Let me know when you tackle this.   There needs to be some kind of universal nib nomenclature.


Krapprot

[melanie jane]

You find the same nib shapes made by all of the main manufacturers. Unique shapes are very rare. If something was made by one company, and it sold, then it was eventually made by most everyone else.

One of these days I want to compile a list of standard names for shapes. Some already have names, like the falcon and spoon nibs, but most are variations on some generic shape. I'd be curious to know if some of these already have names in calligraphy circles. I don't want to re-invent the wheel.

@AAAndrew   Andrew, I was just going through a few old threads, and noticed your post above.  I came across this Italian website a few days ago, and thought you might be interested.  Obviously it's in Italian, but it's pretty easy to work out.  They've listed the manufacturers alphabetically, so just click into the letter of the manufacturer you are interested in.  The last column of the table ('famiglia') shows the shape of the particular nib.  If you then cross reference that with the 'Indice Famiglia' from the front page, it will show you the style of nib.  The only problem is that the pictures of the styles aren't great quality, but it may give you a bit of a start. 

Here is the link to the site http://www.webalice.it/g.paganelli/Altri/Pennini/

[AAAndrew]

Thanks, Melanie Jane. I’ll take a look. Sounds interesting.

As a side note, Perry was the first to have extensive names and numbering systems for his nibs. Even as early as the 1830’s he was known for creating “species and genera” for his pens.

[melanie jane]

Andrew, I didn't know that, although I do tend to favour Perry nibs over most others, Gillott included. 

Going back to the different shapes of nibs, it's interesting how different countries seemed to favour different nib shapes, even when just talking about fine and flexible nibs.

Judging by what seems to have been manufactured by, or exported to, each country - the US seems to favour what you might call a 'standard' type nib, such as the Spencerian 1, and many others.  The UK seems to favour similar shapes, though there don't seem to be a huge amount of very flexible pens made for the UK market (I am not going on anything concrete here, just a general feeling as to what's around).  The French seemed to like the various 'arrow' type nibs, such as the 2552 Departementale, or the Incomparable General Leman, or Sgt Major, and also the 'skeleton' type Henry nibs.  The Italians, on the other hand, seem to like the 3 hole 'beak' nibs, like the Perry 104, as well as the 'crown' type nibs like the Perry 120, both of which styles are made by numerous Italian manufacturers.  English manufacturers do seem to make versions of all of these nibs, though it is hard to know whether they were copying an existing continental design to cash in on the popular styles, or whether they, in fact, invented the styles which were then copied throughout Europe. 

As a slight aside, I'm curious as to whether anyone has a good resource for dating nibs and/or boxes?  I tend to assume that most of the nibs and boxes I have are from the 1920s-1960s, but I suspect some of them may be much older.

[erato]

I am lucky enough to have all the following nibs and use it for years.
Let me share what I'd learned with you.

A. Sommerville & Co, No. 750, EF Plume Gauloise -- Very fine stroke, high flexibility
A. Sommerville & Co, No. 750, F Plume Gauloise -- Fine stroke, high flexibility
A. Sommerville & Co, No. 750, M Plume Gauloise -- Medium stroke, high flexibility

Baignol Farjon N°2436 Velleda Cementee  -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility
Baignol Farjon N°436 Velleda  -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility

Blanzy Poure & Cie, No. 0552 EF, Plume Departementale -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility
Blanzy Poure & Cie, No. 552 F, Plume Departementale -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility

D. Leonardt & Co, No. 5750 EF, Plume Gauloise -- Very fine stroke, high flexibility

Gilbert & Blanzy-Poure, No. 552, Departamentale -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility
Gilbert & Blanzy-Poure, No. 2552, Departamentale, latest version -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility

J.B. Mallat Triomphe -- Very fine stroke, very high flexibility, well-balanced

From my hands on experience, I'd give J.B. Mallat Triomphe highest score while compare with all the nibs above and my second best choice would be A. Sommerville & Co, No. 750, EF.
Gilbert & Blanzy-Poure, No. 2552, Departamentale is relatively easy to get but it's too soft for me.
If you're looking for an alternative options while compare with those dream nibs, Baignol Farjon N°2436 Velleda Cementee and Gilbert & Blanzy-Poure, No. 2552 would be a good choice at all.