Author Topic: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate  (Read 8328 times)

Offline Garima

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #240 on: April 04, 2017, 02:01:13 AM »
Thursday practice (30th March) with @Garima :D Had a wonderful time.
Hunt101, Walnut Ink.
It was so much fun @ash0kgiri!! We will do it more often! :)
Garima Singh
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Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #241 on: April 05, 2017, 04:06:04 AM »
Ashok :

Congratulations on your impressive progress.

The differences btween Engraver's script and Copperplate (English Roundhand) are worth noting as the two are similar but different. These were written at the same time at the same x height with the same nib for direct comparisons.

The wonderful examples by C P Zaner and Dr J Vitolo are in Engraver's Script.
IMHO the best examples of Copperplate (English Roundhand) are in The Universal Penman by George Bickham.
If you are studying Engraver's script that's fine, but it's better to be aware of the differences between the two.



« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 04:24:48 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #242 on: April 05, 2017, 06:20:12 AM »
Hi Ken,
Thank you so much and glad you see some progress. It really means a lot coming from you.
I always thought Copperplate and Engrosser's script is the same. But after seeing what you posted there is quite a difference. So all this while I been referring it wrongly?
I will surely do more study on these two scripts and understand the difference.

Thanks again,
-Ashok

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #243 on: April 05, 2017, 08:38:12 AM »
I always thought Copperplate and Engrosser's script is the same. But after seeing what you posted there is quite a difference. So all this while I been referring it wrongly?
Hi Ashok,
Engrosser's Script is an American development of English Roundhand (most commonly know as Copperplate). The most obvious difference is in the letter width. As you can see from my example the Engrosser's lettering takes up more space horizontally at the same x height. Shading tends to be slightly thicker and the loops are more generous.
In Copperplate, hairlines tend to start much lower from the preceding downstrokes than in Engrosser's Script. Compare the link from n to g in both styles and you'll see what I mean; and the same applies throughout.

There is nothing wrong with Engrosser's Script  it's just a different take on the same style. However, the differences are such that it's probably a good idea to stick to one or the other.
 If you're staying with Engrosser's script, examples by either C P Zaner or Dr J Vitolo are probably best.
Here's a section of exemplary English Roundhand from the 18th century. Copperplate doesn't get any better than this.
If you don't already have a copy, buy "The Universal Penman" by George Bickham and be prepared to blow your mind!

« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:51:30 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #244 on: April 06, 2017, 04:05:19 AM »
Hi Ken,

This makes it quite clear. I been mixing these two styles in my latest practice sheets but not really as per books. I been writing Engrosser's as thats what I have learnt. If you see when I write long paras I write with quite tight line spacing(thats how I like) so there is not always space for generous loop so I keep it flat for letters 'l' 'h' etc. I been following Dr Joe's youtube videos from the very beginning and they are just amazing and I will definitely consider buying "The Universal Penman" by George Bickham soon. :D

Thanks for the valuable information and time to write back.

-Ashok

Offline Garima

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #245 on: April 09, 2017, 01:24:01 PM »
I will definitely consider buying "The Universal Penman" by George Bickham soon. :D
-Ashok

Actually i could have got it today for you to see. You'll find a lot of examples of the open flourishes i was talking about today, in this book. It definitely is worth buying!
Garima Singh
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #246 on: April 09, 2017, 01:29:25 PM »
Oh. You have it. Great. Carry it with you the next time we meet. :D
Thanks as always Garima.

Ashok

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #247 on: April 15, 2017, 09:52:33 AM »
Hi

My Thursday practice. I was quite happy with the overall composition and the shade stroke thickness.
For the first time I used two nibs one is my regular Hunt 101 and the new favourite Hunt Extra Fine 22. I'm surprised by the fine hairlines it gives me :D
Any suggestions, critiques are welcome :D

Keep writing,
-Ashok

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #248 on: April 25, 2017, 09:54:05 AM »
Any suggestions, critiques are welcome :D

This is an exceptional piece of writing IMHO.

I normally prefer lines further apart for the avoidance of clashing ascenders and descenders (as in post #230) but your writing here has no problem in this regard. Also, your fine hairline flourishes have been carefully and tastefully considered, adding interest and enhancing the overall effect. You lettering is symmetrical and evenly weighted with good balanced proportions and the overall layout is just right. A delight to behold  ;D
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 10:01:01 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #249 on: April 25, 2017, 10:32:47 PM »
This is an exceptional piece of writing IMHO.
Couldn't have started my day any better. Thank you Ken @Ken Fraser. It means a lot coming from you. I'm short of words to express myself.

Thank you again,
-Ashok
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 12:28:35 AM by ash0kgiri »

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #250 on: April 25, 2017, 10:53:13 PM »
My Tuesday practice.
Nib - Hunt 101, Walnut Ink on Bond paper.

-Ashok

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #251 on: May 06, 2017, 02:51:54 AM »
Last week practice.
Nib - Hunt 101, Walnut Ink on Bond Paper

-Ashok

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #252 on: May 06, 2017, 02:53:33 AM »
Today's practice sheet.
Nib - Hunt 101, Walnut Ink on Bond paper.

-Ashok

Offline Simone Lettering

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #253 on: May 06, 2017, 05:20:44 AM »
Ashok :

Congratulations on your impressive progress.

The differences btween Engraver's script and Copperplate (English Roundhand) are worth noting as the two are similar but different. These were written at the same time at the same x height with the same nib for direct comparisons.

The wonderful examples by C P Zaner and Dr J Vitolo are in Engraver's Script.
IMHO the best examples of Copperplate (English Roundhand) are in The Universal Penman by George Bickham.
If you are studying Engraver's script that's fine, but it's better to be aware of the differences between the two.

Ken, thank you for this explanation.
One thing that still confuses me is the title of Dr J Vitolo's e-book: 'Beautiful Art of Engrosser's Script. Script in the Copperplate Style.'
How would you name the style he uses in this e-book?

Regards,
Simone

Offline AndyT

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« Reply #254 on: May 06, 2017, 06:40:40 AM »
@Simone Lettering

Dr Vitolo discusses this in the earlier part of this article: it won't answer your question, exactly, but it's worth a read.

For what little it's worth, it seems to me that Dr V's approach is the most sensible one, using "copperplate" as a catch-all term for slanted scripts with a regular emphasis on the downstrokes derived from English roundhand, and drawing a distinction between the English tradition and the later American variant.  "Copperplate" is a problematic term since it can mean different things to different people, and in Britain at least it acquired a pejorative undertone thanks to the influence of Edward Johnston and his followers.  Alfred Fairbank, for instance, wrote that "... the engraver's needle ... tended to give to the pupil the letter-forms proper to the burin rather than to the quill" with the heavy implication that it was all downhill from there.