Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1  (Read 77166 times)

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #270 on: April 23, 2017, 02:24:13 AM »
@AllisonP

This is not bad at all after such a long break. Here are some things to work on:

- The turns at the base line are too rounded. This 'turn' is actually not even a turn :-) the shaded stroke should 'end' at the base like just slightly to the right of the right side of the shade  - lift the pen here and then put it back to draw the exit hairline. The inside of the 'turn' is actually quite sharp - the curve is on the 'outside'. Study the examples I provided closely and you will see it :-)

- The joins are too abrupt. This is because your exit hairlines are not steep enough - the exit hairline is the entry hairline for the next letter and should meet it halfway up the x-height. At that point, the hairline's slant should match the slant line which will result in a smooth transition to the shaded stroke of the next letter.

- The shape of the counter on the second 'j' is what you are looking for. The counter should be a nice even teardrop shape.

You are almost there - just a little bit of refinement and you will have it.

- Salman
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Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline LAscripted

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #271 on: April 24, 2017, 06:53:33 AM »
Here is my first attempt at forming these letters. I will admit that I am very nervous to post this and I feel I have a very long way to go. I do look forward to feedback so that I can improve.

Thank you for your time and feedback Salman!

ash0kgiri

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #272 on: April 24, 2017, 08:08:39 AM »
Wow Lauri. This is really good for the first attempt. :D

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #273 on: April 24, 2017, 12:54:38 PM »
@LAscripted

That is indeed a good start Lauri. I quite agree with Ashok.

You have maintained a fairly consistent slant and have a good eye for proportions. This is a good foundation to build on.

Here are some pointers:

- The tapering happens only in the bottom 1/3rd of the x-height. In the example above, you start to taper as soon as you start the stroke resulting in a wedge shaped shaded stroke (shaded strokes are the thick ones). When you start the letter, maintain a constant width until you reach the last 1/3rd of the x-height, then start to lift off and move the pen slightly to the right so you end up just a tad to the right of the right side of the shade on the base line. Stop and lift your pen at this point before moving on to draw the hairline.

- The turns at the base line are too rounded. It seems to me that you are not stopping at the base line. Remember, we are not writing - we are drawing a series of strokes that make up letters. This is fundamentally different than how we write and will feel unnatural at the beginning.

- The shade of the 'j' should taper earlier. The last 1/3rd of the stroke is actually a hairline. The shaded stroke should taper off to a hairline by the time you get to the 1st descender line.

Have another go at these with the above in mind. Remember to practice in groups of 5 :-)

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

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Offline [email protected]

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #274 on: May 14, 2017, 01:37:09 AM »
@SMK @ash0kgiri

Salman- thank you kindly for this lesson. I have thoroughly enjoyed making my way through each letter thoughtfully.  Your advice of working in groups of five was more helpful then I had imagined. I'm glad I committed to following your method explicitly. In just a few short days I swear I already see a difference- if not in my work, certainly in my desire and mindfulness when it comes to practice. Thank you!

Ashok- thank you so much for bringing me here!!!! 

For my words...  I used an oblique holder, Hunt 101, Hp laser paper 32lb with walnut ink. 

I'm excited (and a little nervous) to get your thoughts, but oh so ready to keep moving forward!


ash0kgiri

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #275 on: May 14, 2017, 01:52:43 AM »
WOW @Jennifer M. You are most welcome! :D
This is super duper first attempt. You slant, shade, hairline all are so very consistent. I see you lifting your pen at quite a few occasions which is good. Just try to square off the tops. Thats all I can say.

Salman would give you detailed feedback. Im sure he would be much impressed.

Offline [email protected]

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #276 on: May 14, 2017, 03:44:36 PM »
Thank You, @ash0kgiri for your feedback! 

I promise am consciously lifting at the baseline, though on magnification even I cannot always see evidence of this.  I chalk that up to nib placement.  When drawing my next hairline up from the baseline- I seem to touch the stroke exactly at the point at which it meets the baseline.  Cross my heart... I am making the lift  :D.  I'm not sure if this is a good or bad habit.

The square tops are another beast.  At times I am able to achieve them, at others I am not.  I am unsure as to why.  Do I need to change my nib? I do think my nib needs to be changed, but that's another matter.  Is my hold wrong?  I've found if I twist my holder a little to the right my tines split nicely forming square tops.  At the same time, I worry that this method might be hard on my nibs wearing them out faster than I'd like.  Would a straight holder serve me better?  I would love some tips on this topic.  The less time I spend retouching, the better. 

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #277 on: May 15, 2017, 02:37:36 PM »
@Jennifer M

You have given yourself a most excellent launching pad with this start Jennifer. The loop of that 'j' is a thing of beauty.

You have most of the basics in place already and we can jump right into refining your script.Here are a few things to work on:

- The straight strokes have a slight curve to them. This might be due to the speed your write at but I can't be sure. The curve is more noticeable in the longer strokes but it is there in the 'i' stroke too.

- You start to taper off the shaded stroke too early. Again, this might be due to the speed your write at. The taper should only start in the last 1/3rd of the x-height before reaching the base line.

- Some of your shaded strokes taper off before reaching the base line. This creates an inconsistency in the overall texture of your script. Once again, it seems to me like you are writing a bit too quickly for full control.

BTW - the lifts should be invisible if possible. It is great that you can do it naturally.

The square tops should be retouched. I don't expect, or recommend, doing it in one go. In time one can get pretty consistent with making the tops and bottoms square in one stroke but it will never be as precise as retouching.

I will be looking forward to your next attempt.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline [email protected]

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #278 on: May 15, 2017, 06:57:07 PM »
@Jennifer M



- The straight strokes have a slight curve to them. This might be due to the speed your write at but I can't be sure. The curve is more noticeable in the longer strokes but it is there in the 'i' stroke too.

- You start to taper off the shaded stroke too early. Again, this might be due to the speed your write at. The taper should only start in the last 1/3rd of the x-height before reaching the base line.

- Some of your shaded strokes taper off before reaching the base line. This creates an inconsistency in the overall texture of your script. Once again, it seems to me like you are writing a bit too quickly for full control.


I am quite wowed by your critique.  After reading @ash0kgiri critique I began looking closer at my square tops.  I went back and started to write to see where I was going wrong.  It didn't take long to see that I'm writing too fast and using too much pressure, thus the slight curve in my straight stroke.  I find it truly amazing that you can pick that up without watching me write- simply brilliant! 

I've gone back to practicing groups of 5.  I will continue to work on slowing down and lightening my hand to gain more control as well as the other points you've touched on. 

Thank you so much for your time and detailed critique.  I am grateful for these lessons as they are fueling me to learn and that is really exciting!!!
-Jennifer

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #279 on: May 26, 2017, 02:43:05 AM »
@Jennifer M - its amazing what you can pick up when you have made as many mistakes as I have :-)

Changing the speed of your writing will throw you off for a bit - things that were working before would be a bit harder while other things will become easier. Stick with it and you will soon realize the benefits.

Looking forward to your next submission.

- Salman

I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Tanja

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #280 on: May 28, 2017, 09:08:32 AM »
Hello Salman and fellow learners,
I have just discovered this forum and great tutorial a few days ago and after practicing for a few days this is what I came up with.
A lot of inconsistency and I do not get the stokes squared at the top, but it is a pleasure to practice and to see improvement. Even if it is tiny.

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #281 on: May 28, 2017, 06:40:03 PM »
@Tanja

Welcome to the forum and to the tutorial Tanja.

You have a good control of the pen and have produced well balanced and even shades. You are a bit off on some of the basics but it shouldn't take you long to get the hang of it. I suggest you go through some of the feedback for other submissions too - it will help you learn what to look for in your own work.

Here are a few things for you to work on:

- Even slant. This is most easily fixed by turning the paper to match your natural stroke angle. Also, keep moving the paper so you are always writing in the sweet spot for you.

- Spacing. This is almost automatically fixed for you if you take care to join the letters with the hairline at 1/2 x-height. The exit hairline of a letter should join the following letter at 1/2 x-height. Your spacing will be perfect as long as your exit hairlines are consistent. You have a tendency to put the letters too close together causing the exit hairline to join the following letter closer to the base line.

- Square tops. Touch up your shaded strokes to make the top horizontal. This is done by adding a tiny '7' to the top of the shaded stroke and filling in any gaps. Take care not to make the top too thick or too tall. It is tricky but you will get the hang of it.

Happy practising :-)

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline liavarm

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #282 on: June 03, 2017, 06:56:45 PM »
Hi @SMK !! Here's another try at group 1 words  :)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 10:05:10 AM by liavarm »
"Art is the stored honey of the human soul"

Offline schun

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #283 on: June 09, 2017, 10:08:21 AM »
Hi Salman,

I would like to submit my practice sheet for review and critique by your expert eyes or by anybody else at the Forum who would be kind enough to lend me some of their expertise.

I have been practicing for a few months and am still struggling with consistency in my letter forms.

One particular challenge that I would like some guidance on is the squaring off at the top of the "i". I understand that I am supposed to square off the top of the letter flush with the x-height line. However, if I place the paper at an angle to draw the "i" straight down at 55 degrees, the tip of my nib is placed in such a way that the squaring-off is also at an angle (see second picture).

My concern is that a) this is not the correct letter form and b) the angled top (and in other letters, the bottom) will be even more noticeable if written in a larger size.

I suspect I am having such a basic problem because I am such a beginner, but am not sure what the best way to correct this is. Do I twist my holder ever so slightly to square off the top against the x-height line?

I hope this all makes sense!

Thank you for any advice you can share!

soo

Offline Simone Lettering

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #284 on: June 11, 2017, 02:15:18 AM »