Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2  (Read 60750 times)

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2016, 01:13:31 PM »
Hi Salman, here is another go with the words unit, twin, nib. Thanks!

Lovely work Anjali. Please move on to lesson 3. (where's a thumbs-up emoticon when you need one!)

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Mamashag

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2016, 01:16:13 PM »
Thank you Salman. I will work on that compound curve.
RC

Offline Anjali N

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2016, 02:21:21 PM »
Yeah!!  See you on the group 3 thread!!   :D

 Have a lovely weekend (and thank you, as always).

Hi Salman, here is another go with the words unit, twin, nib. Thanks!

Lovely work Anjali. Please move on to lesson 3. (where's a thumbs-up emoticon when you need one!)

- Salman

Offline sarthina

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2016, 05:29:13 PM »
Hi!
I'm struggling with my engrosser's and followed @jeanwilson advise to ask for your help. I'll post my latest practice sheet (which you can also find it on Kind Critique section) and maybe you've got the time and patience to tell what's wrong with my writing and where should I insist on. Or anything else you consider important. For the moment, I'm becoming more and more frustrated because of the 'm' and 'n's - can't figure why is so difficult to do them well.
PS Not sure if this is where I suppose to post this, so sorry if I'm not in the right 'spot'.
Take a look here: @sarthina_scribit

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2016, 03:40:29 PM »
@sarthina

You have developed a nice script. It is quite natural to hit a 'plateau' in your learning where practice just doesn't seem to result in improvement. I was frustrated in my studies of Copperplate as well - so much so that I took a break from it for a few weeks before going back to it.

You have made good progress but if I may be quite frank, I think you are doing it the hard way. Using guidelines makes things very easy during the learning stages. They are useful even if you can write well without them. Also, writing at a larger size makes it much easier to see the structure of your strokes and where you are going wrong.

I think just these two things will result in quicker progress. (You can download the 1/4 inch guidelines I recommend from the group-1 thread.)

I have compiled my best advice on how to form Copperplate letters in the tutorials - please feel free to read through even if you don't want to join it. The 'm' and 'n' are formed by the two basic strokes introduced in the group-2 letters. Practicing these will help. However, I would recommend you start with group-1 so as not to miss out on some of the basic vocabulary and techniques we use in these tutorials. Also, I do see some inconsistency in your 'i' strokes that are wedge shaped due to the taper starting a bit too early.

Engrosser's Script (ES) is a very precisely 'drawn' hand. I see that you are making most of your strokes in one go. While your control is good most of the time, ES requires control all the time. My lessons fall somewhere between the more flowing Copperplate and the very precise ES.

I hope this helps a bit :-)

- Salman





I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline sarthina

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2016, 07:16:56 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply. And for the concise explanations. As a matter of fact, I feel a bit dumb: I think I might have misused the terms. I said engrosser's and ...well, I don't think this what I'm after. A "more flowing Copperplate" -like you said- is what I'm trying to achieve. For example I love what I've seen in some of W. Baird's instructions on IAMPETH - though I don't know what term to use for that. On the other hand, it doesn't really matter as long as I stick to one style. ...I guess. Anyway, I'll start with your first group of minuscules and see what's coming up.
Thanks again for your time and sorry for my ignorance.
Take a look here: @sarthina_scribit

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2016, 01:05:44 PM »
I will be looking forward to your participation.

As I have said in the intro, the goal of these tutorials is to develop control and an understanding of the script. While I insist on a particular form and method in the lessons, the idea is not to teach the script as much as develop the ability to analyze and understand the various strokes that make up the script. I only use my examples as a reference point for that understanding. Ideally the students will be able to practice any style they choose after going through this series of lessons.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline baodingball

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2016, 02:07:59 AM »
Hi, finally got the time to post my exercises on lesson 2, so here it is:

Offline sarthina

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2016, 11:06:50 AM »
Got the time myself too so I'll post my work for lesson 2. Looking forward for some feedback. Thanks.
Have a lovely weekend everyone.
Take a look here: @sarthina_scribit

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2016, 02:22:02 PM »
@baodingball

Nice work. You have done a good job with your first attempt at the group 2 letters. There are a few tweaks to be made but your basic structure is good.

- The tapering of the shaded strokes should start about 1/3rd x-height above the base line. You have a tendency to leave it a bit too late. Also, you should move your pen to the right a bit as you reach the base line. These will make the bottom turns a bit rounded and better balanced - right now they are skewed to the left a bit.

- This is related to the above. Your exit hairlines go up from the base line rather sharply. This makes the join to the next letter a bit abrupt as well as causes spacing issus. See the exit of the 'i' in the first 'vim'. You have corrected these in the second line but it still appears in 'built' and the 'i' of 'whip' on this line.

- Your i-n type joins are much better on the second line. Just refine them a bit so they are smoother and balanced. They should have the same shape if you turn the paper upside down.

- The top turns on some of your compound curves look a bit too sharp. The path of the pen is in fact correct, it is just that you start the shade a bit too late which makes them appear sharp. We are talking minuscule amounts here.

These are rather fine points but I think you have the ability to execute this level of refinement. Let's have another go at these words.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2016, 02:33:41 PM »
@sarthina

I was looking forward to your attempt at these letters. Your sense of spacing and control of the slant are indeed very good. There is not much to fix here.

- The compound curve stroke is not supposed to have a curve. The increasing shade at the top and the decreasing shade at the bottom create the illusion of one. The top part of this stroke is the inverted 'i' and the bottom is a right side up 'i'. This means that the  bottom part of the stroke should not go to the left of the top one when placed on the slant line. It is only slightly noticeable in the 'n' in the first 'tin' but then all the compound strokes in 'mint' and 'nymph' on the first line show this. It doesn't always happen but it happens enough to be distracting.

- Start the shade of the compound curve a bit earlier to match the decreasing shade at the bottom. This is a common issue and needs constant correction. I do this all the time and have to make a conscious effort to fix it.

- the tall letters are a bit too tall in my opinion - try them at 1.5 x-height above the waist line. I think they will look better balanced.

The compound curve is the major thing here. It is important enough that it should be handled at this stage. Have another go at these words.

- Salman
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 11:48:24 AM by SMK »
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline baodingball

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2016, 02:48:27 AM »
@baodingball
...
These are rather fine points but I think you have the ability to execute this level of refinement. Let's have another go at these words.
...
- Salman

Appreciate the feedback very much.  Here is my second attempt.

Offline Salman Khattak

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 908
  • Karma: 67
    • View Profile
    • Toronto Pen Company
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2016, 07:35:28 PM »
@baodingball

This is very nicely done. You have a tendency to lose the slant a bit. This can easily be fixed by turning the page a bit so the slant lines and the slit in your nib are better aligned.

The lower loops of the 'y' and 'j' are shifting to the left a bit too much making these letters lean to the right. This needs to be fixed but you can work on it along with the next group of letters.

I will be looking forward to seeing your attempt at the group-3 letters.

Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline AngieD

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2016, 04:30:28 PM »
My first attempt at group 2.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 08:45:20 AM by AngieD »

Offline sarthina

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2016, 03:23:57 AM »
Here's my second upload after practicing (not as much as I would have liked) during the week. From far above, like from an airplane, it looks good  :o ...
Waiting for some feedback as usual. And a question for Angie: what nib/pen are you using? Seems like I can't do so thick shades and wonder if it's my nib or something...
Thanks!
PS Oh, don't mind last row - was just trying to see how shading works. More or less...
Take a look here: @sarthina_scribit