Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2  (Read 60781 times)

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2017, 11:52:57 AM »
@neriah

Katja - the spacing around the m's and n's looks good to me. There will be some variation but the overall texture of the writing is good. The 'nym' part will look a lighter due to two of the 1/5 width ligatures. The 'u' in 'until' is a bit too straight and the the two counters of the 'm' in the 'vim' are not the same - however these are minor variations.

Please move on to the next group :-)

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Sally Ellington

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2017, 08:40:28 PM »
Group 2 practice.

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2017, 11:31:38 PM »
@Sally Ellington

Hi Sally - Group 2 letters build on the foundation laid in the Group 1 letters. You have not yet mastered the basic 'i' stroke and will therefor have trouble getting the inverted 'i' and the compound stroke right.

For example, your 'i's are 'standing up' from the slant, not uniform in width and the turn at the base line needs work. I recommend going back to group 1 and working on these and the other things I mentioned in response to your previous work. That work will stand you in good stead when you take on the other groups.

Thank you for the much better picture this time. I can see all the detail I need.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Sally Ellington

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2017, 06:51:21 AM »
Thank you, Salman. I realized after I uploaded it and was looking at your comments to others that I should not have moved on to the next group without your "ok" from the first group. I see what you mean with the thickness of the "i". That will help me as I examine my own work in the future. I appreciate your feedback so much.

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #79 on: October 01, 2017, 02:04:46 AM »
Hi Salman,
Impatience got better of me, and moved on to group 2 without your go ahead. First practice of group 2.
Normal paper
Oblique Holder with Gillott 303 nib
Walnut ink

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2017, 12:58:00 AM »
@Vipul - please fee free to practice all the groups. However, It only makes sense to provide feedback for the group you are currently on as the skills build on top of each other.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2017, 02:29:27 AM »
Hi @Salman
Did quite a bit of practice. Enough to realise that I had a few doubts. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but my compound curve is not appearing as fluid as the ones you make, or other old calligraphers make.
Also, am eating away nibs like crazy. Went through 2 Gillott 303 nibs in about 4 hours of practice of the compound curve, so apparently there must be something I must be doing wrong. This nib has also started snagging on fibres of paper.... Same ink, same paper, same nib as the initial lesson, but there managed about 8-10 hrs from a nib, before it started giving issues. Anything you can suggest?

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2017, 12:30:27 PM »
@Vipul

Ah - you have gone back to heavy shades and square shapes. I think it is time to lighten up a lot - aim for half the shade thickness you have here. It should tighten up your strokes and produce a more pleasing shape. Also, reduce the length of the long strokes to what I have in the exemplar. This will take you out of your comfort zone for a bit which might be a good thing right now. You will start to see things a little differently.

As for the compound curve, it takes a bit of practice to get it. Did you start with the inverted 'i' practice in groups of 5? The basic strokes are the keys - mastering them is the easiest way to develop competency in Copperplate IMO. Practice each stroke until you can consistently get 3 or 4 good ones out of 5. This exercise also sharpens the eye which is extremely important.

Gillott 303 is a delicate nib with poor quality control. Do not be surprised if some of your nibs are bad out of the box. I usually find about 40% turn out to be bad. But then I find one that will match any dream vintage nib and then all the frustration is worth it. The Hunt 101 has somewhat better quality control and is also easier to control than the 303.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #83 on: October 20, 2017, 11:07:25 AM »
@Salman Khattak
After a bit of practice. Changed the nib to Zebra G. I know there are flaws and there is a need to practice to get consistency, but just wanted to know from you if I'm on the right track, or need some basic change.
Thanks, and sorry for repeated posts asking for advice.
Vipul

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #84 on: October 20, 2017, 12:34:25 PM »
@Vipul

Please post away and ask as many questions a you want. It does not bother me in the least. In fact I appreciate it.

You are getting the hang of the compound stroke. The one in the 'n' in 'bin' looks quite good.

Here are a few observations:

- Your shades are still too thick - it must be hard to do with a G nib. Make them more delicately and you will gain better control.

- The letter shapes are too square still. Look at the space inside the 'n' in 'nymph' - it should be the same as the space in the counters of an 'm' in the same word. The 'p' and 'h' are again too wide. You will be on track if you get all the counters in that word to be the same size as the 'm's.

- Reduce the height of your ascenders and descenders to what I have in the examples. It will highlight the squareness of the letter forms which needs to be fixed.

Keep at it - there is progress even if it doesn't feel like it.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2017, 04:32:38 AM »
@Salman
Thanks for your comments. It's so great to have feedback and know where to focus on.... Shortens the journey so much.
Here is my attempt again. Changed the ink, but there is a bit if bleeding and feathering with this new ink.
Tried to keep the points you said in mind. I think I'm rushing through the letters, and hence me slope is getting affected. Plus, tend to press a little hard on the down stroke, so trying to control that.
Request comment on the letter width and the space of the counters. I think the compound stroke is a lesser problem than the width and size of letters.... Do you agree, and of yes, what should I do to improve on that? Other than practice, because sometimes it feels like I'm running on a spot.
Thanks,
Vipul
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 11:45:41 PM by Vipul »

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2017, 10:34:13 AM »
Hi @Salman
Yet another practice. Think now I'm just sliding backwards.😣
The first two lines are with Gillott 303 nib. The last two lines are with Zebra-G nib.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 12:27:28 PM by Vipul »

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2017, 11:03:02 PM »
Hi @Salman
Another practice, after a break of a couple of days. The nib turned really scratchy, so please ignore the ink splatters....

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2017, 10:03:43 PM »
@Vipul - sorry for the long break.

Your spacing is still a bit wide. For example, look at the 'b' and 'n' and 'bin': The i-n join i quite nice, the 'b' and the 'n', however, are wider than this 'i-n' join where these should take up a little less space.

I think it is time to put down the pen for a bit and do a bit of careful studying. Study the letter 'n' carefully and look at the proportions - draw a box around the exemplar I provide and see the shape. Now try to fit your 'n' in a rectangle like that. Draw it out in pencil and then ink over it.

Just concentrate on the letter 'n' for now and let me see the results.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 2
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2017, 11:01:05 PM »
Hi @Salman
Did a few ns' as you had suggested. Filled a couple of pages.... These are at the end of it.
Thought I'd post it and get your feedback, before I continue with something incorrect.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 01:46:48 PM by Vipul »