italian hand

[sanne137]

I am maybe cursing in calligraphy church right now, but does it really matter which holder you use? I would think the result is the only thing that matters?

Making a comparison to *church* is very appropriate.
Yes, you find some people who are ultra traditional and want to adhere to very specific rules and at the other end of the spectrum you find people who embrace the spirit of the activity but are more relaxed and flexible in their approach. And there are people in the middle. There will never be agreement on anything (except maybe which end of the nib to insert in the holder) but hopefully there is an abundance of respect for our fellow travelers on the path of penmanship. There are so many sources that acknowledge the spiritual benefits of engaging in an art or craft. When you connect with that joy of making something with your hands, there is a benefit.

I think my church saying is very Dutch Didn't realise this until now.
I used this because I wanted to be very carefull with my question. There could easily be benefits to using a straight holder when writing Italian hand that I don't know about, and I didn't want to offend anybody with my question
Good to hear there are a lot of different opinions.

[AnasaziWrites]

There will never be agreement on anything (except maybe which end of the nib to insert in the holder) but hopefully there is an abundance of respect for our fellow travelers on the path of penmanship. There are so many sources that acknowledge the spiritual benefits of engaging in an art or craft. When you connect with that joy of making something with your hands, there is a benefit.

Well said.

[Estefa]

… and if we talk about the Italian Hand that can be found in the Universal Penman, that was written with a quill of course … cut quite pointed, but still broad. It is explained in "George Bickham's Penmanship made easy": "Make all your body strokes with the Full, & all Hair Strokes with the corner of Your Pen. […] Make the Nib of your Pen for the Round & Round Text Hands the breadth of the full Stroke, & that part lying next to the Hand Something Shorter & Narrower. For the Italian Hand make the Nib something finer, & the Slit longer."

(Funny spelling, with all the capitals …?)

[Moya]

I am maybe cursing in calligraphy church right now, but does it really matter which holder you use? I would think the result is the only thing that matters?

Haha! I actually agree with you, but perhaps we should both sit up the back and whisper it very quietly!

There will never be agreement on anything (except maybe which end of the nib to insert in the holder) but hopefully there is an abundance of respect for our fellow travelers on the path of penmanship. There are so many sources that acknowledge the spiritual benefits of engaging in an art or craft. When you connect with that joy of making something with your hands, there is a benefit.

Jean, you are an oracle of truth and wisdom. ♥♥

[Cecilia]

Let me step in the discussion to add a little information.


Suzy from Twig&Fig shared a beautiful exemplar from the Gallica data base a few weeks ago.
It's from a German Calligrapher named Jean Van Den Bosch and it was penned between 1603 and 1631.


I checked the manuscript online and found out it contains a wonderful page of what I think is early Italian Hand. It's evident to my eyes that this was taking its start from Cancelleresca, but was slowly developing into something different, still using the same tool (even though cutting of the quill was also being adapted to the scope).


Here's the link to the manuscript [size=78%]http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10234821t[/size]


Since Mr Bickham was born in 1684, this appears to be a step earlier than his own Italian Hand.


I'm sure there are other beautiful exemplars digitalized somewhere in the www

[InkyFingers]

Yes.  I most agreed.  It is a variant of Cancellaresco, in 1550 Giovan Francesco Cresci device this type of script, with the distinctive testeggiata (club shaped) on the descender and ascender.

It was written with a quill cut to sharp small flat flexible nib.
 
Here done with an 1.1mm sharp italic nib.

[Ken Fraser]

Heather uses a straight holder She told me to stop as soon as she saw me trying with an oblique.

I wrote my "Italian Hand" example (earlier in this thread) with an oblique holder.