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Messages - RoughDiamond

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What a beautiful tribute to some great advice!

Thank you :-)

Flourish indeed! Thank you for sharing!  ;D

Thank you Erica. :-)

A very beautiful sentiment and applicable 😂 Beautiful work!

Thank you :-)

One of the things my dad told me was "Work hard son, study and practise and you will surely flourish"

I'm not sure he had this in mind but Dad........thank you!

This is beautiful work!! I hope you don't mind me asking a Newbie question  ;D do you turn your page to make the flourishes at the bottom? Or do you keep it in the same angle/position you do for writing?

Thank you. In answer to your question yes, I frequently turn the page depending on where I want the shades to be. Sometime I'll use a straight holder (but rarely). For me it is a matter of comfort and what I want to achieve so there is no fixed rule from my point of view. 99% of the time I use an oblique holder if that helps?

You have great control on the flourishes too -- confident and elegant. Thanks for sharing!

Thank you and you're welcome.

While the Nikko G and Zebra G nibs are often promoted as good nibs for beginners to pointed pen (with good reason), I have always found them to be good all round nibs for advanced practitioners as well.

While they would probably not suit very small x-heights, I have found that for heights of 4mm and above they are pretty good performers.

They are capable of good shades, smooth lines and very fine hairlines if the ink and paper combination works well together.

This quick piece was done on Canson marker paper with a Nikko G and walnut ink in an attempt to illustrate what it can do. The x-height is 6mm.

I hope it helps some people.

So it looks like you've had some good input here which is great and here's some more tips.

Paper will play a big part in this as well. Always remember that the combination of ink, paper and nib will always come into play. You may well have your ink adjusted to perform well on one paper and then you switch to another paper and it all goes wrong. Start making notes as to which paper, nib and ink combinations work well together.

The g nibs are capable of producing very fine hairlines if the above mix is correct and of course the necessary degree of skill from the penperson.

The speed of the pen over the paper can also be a factor. I guess as you've posted in the copperplate forum that is the discipline you are concerned about. Copperplate is typically written slowly so you may not have the "speed of nib" thing to think about so even more it would come down to ink mix, nib and paper. I mention this as you specifically talked abut entry and exit strokes which would be done rather slowly compared to some areas of flourishing where a bit of speed may be an advantage.

Finally, for hairlines, think in another way. Rather than think about the nib delivering ink to the paper, think in terms of the paper drawing the ink that it needs or can grab as the nib skates over the paper. So keep things moving so the paper doesn't have time to take excess ink. This will involve a very light touch and perhaps think of your nib being like a butterfly with sore feet. As you can imagine, more fibrous papers will absorb (or take) more ink leading to thicker lines and taking that a stage further, potential bleeding and feathering.

As to the question of gum arabic, yes you are right in that it is a thickening medium as much as water is a thinning medium. Again, what you need to add to your ink (if anything) may well depend on the nib and paper you are using so a certain amount of experimentation may well be needed.

In addition to the nibs mentioned previously, you might also consider the Gillott 303 and the Hunt 22B to add to your list.

Beautiful! And I love the flourish!

Thank you Erica  :)

We have to be willing to look at different approaches......change what we do slightly, refine our writing and constantly review what we are doing because otherwise.....

I am so happy to hear you are giving the Curv-E a try Cyril @Cyril Jayant ! As you know, it is the only holder I use now. It just feels right for me. I suggest really giving it a go before deciding and not switching back and forth to another holder for a bit. This way your hand also develops a memory for the feel of the holder.

I would also suggest (and some may disagree with me), that you practice with a Nikko G or Zebra G until you develop a feel for the hand. I say this because the nibs are stiffer than others (especially vintage) and will allow you the ability to concentrate on other aspects until you feel comfortable with it. Every nib has its nuances and once you have developed your hand, then experimenting with different nibs gives you a whole new field of play. It is remarkable the difference nib to nib.

Some say because they are so stiff, you cannot get a proper shade with a Nikko or Zebra. That's nonsense. You do not need to exert a great amount of pressure to produce a shade (as you can tell when using a Hunt 101 or Gillott 404). It's a slight increase in pressure, no matter the nib. It really comes from the brain to the proprioceptors in your finger tips. The reverse is true in terms of a hairline. You can get a beautiful hairline with those nibs - but I agree it will never rival the vintage nibs or the new Leonardt Principal EF.

While it seems like the oblique holder is yet another item to have to deal with in terms of learning curve, I like to suggest people start as they mean to go on when developing their hand. Once people start with a straight holder, it is difficult to transition to an oblique and vice versa. But I will reiterate, any good penman, no matter how good, if they are using a straight holder, there will be a slight ragged right edge to their Engrosser's script. It may not be nakedly visible but it's there. The oblique eliminates this and produces a smooth edge on both sides because of how it allows the pressure to be exerted on the pen.

I completely agree with Ken and often turn my paper in order to make certain shades/strokes. Even while flourishing. Especially when flourishing.  ;D

I look forward to hearing how you like the Curv-E!  :)

P.S. I find the Gillott 303 scratchy no matter what! I rarely find one that doesn't give me splats.  :o

I agree with Erica here but I have found the G nibs (both Nikko and Zebra) very capable nibs. Of course there are things that have to come together to give the desired result but the G nibs are capable of fine hairlines and deep shades. I offer this piece which was written with a Nikko G on Canson 70gsm Marker Paper and with Walnut ink.

Thank you Erica  :)

Long time member but first post

Copperplate, Engrosser's Script, Roundhand Calligraphy / Re: Comparison
« on: December 10, 2020, 10:31:15 AM »
Hi Ken

Very interesting points. May I put this in a Facebook Copperplate group please (giving you the credit of course) as I think it will helpful to those studying the forms?

Many thanks.

Please, go ahead.
I should mention that I sent a short article on the subject to The Copperplate Special Interest Group and it will appear in the Spring issue.

Many thanks Ken. I'll keep my eye out for that in the Spring newsletter.

Copperplate, Engrosser's Script, Roundhand Calligraphy / Re: Comparison
« on: December 08, 2020, 03:52:53 AM »
Hi Ken

Very interesting points. May I put this in a Facebook Copperplate group please (giving you the credit of course) as I think it will helpful to those studying the forms?

Many thanks.

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