Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4  (Read 17851 times)

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #150 on: February 06, 2019, 12:40:20 PM »
Diane, I thank you for your encouragement and sharing your “AHA!” Moment! I have one of your practice pieces up on the wall in front of my calligraphy table to inspire me.

Thank you again! Salman has such marvelous, giving and sharing students.

Gratefully,
Debi

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #151 on: February 07, 2019, 11:26:37 AM »
This morning’s practice. I can still see some problem areas:

—I know the word spacing between ‘of’ and ‘shade’ is a little tight.

— The ‘s’ and ‘i’ in risk are a bit close together, as is the ‘r’ and ‘a’ in craze, the ‘s’ and ‘i’ in size, and the ‘s’ and ‘o’ and ‘a’ and ‘I’ in ‘spacing’.

—The ‘e’ and ‘i’ in weight is also too tight.

—And ‘shade’ could be stretched out a bit—it’s too cramped.

Still, I’m seeing major improvement, and I’m sure enjoying the Group 4 letters and words. I’ll keep practicing!


Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #152 on: February 07, 2019, 11:30:22 AM »
Oh my gosh, I just realized I missed the blob on ‘fox.’ Yikes! I don’t know how I missed that. I had problems with the exit hairline, so I was doing that before I went back and put the blob on the ‘f’s. i totally forgot to do it! Hahh. I’m such an airhead.

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #153 on: February 09, 2019, 06:32:57 AM »
Working on spacing, weight of shade, and slant. Trying to open up the letters a bit more so they aren’t so crowded.

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #154 on: February 09, 2019, 06:34:40 AM »
Oops! It didn’t attach. Trying again. Working on spacing, slant, weight of shade, and opening up words so the letters aren’t so crowded. Working on rhythm, entrance and exit strokes.

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #155 on: February 20, 2019, 10:21:02 PM »
I wanted to share something that seems to be helping me. I’ve been struggling with spacing issues, both between words and between letters. I don’t see it as I’m working close up on them, but as soon as I sit back, they glare at me. Perhaps I’m hunched over too closely to the paper, but having some eyesight problems negates the ability of sitting up with good posture and lettering. I have to rely on building a memory for the areas of concern.

As an animal trainer, I went back to my behavioral roots and decided to try “backchaining” words. This is where you take any behavior, start at the last step, and learn it from the last step to the first, the ending to the beginning.

So I took the word “stork” and broke it down into the 5 letters. I practiced the last letter first, then the next to the last, and so on until I had added the entire word.

By doing this, I began to get some consistency, and I’ve found it very helpful. I don’t know if it was worth mentioning or not, but I am pleased with the progress it has helped me make on a few problems I simply could not seem to overcome otherwise.

Offline Diane Bennett

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #156 on: February 22, 2019, 09:05:11 AM »
@NevadaDeb

Spacing has always been an issue with me so I am going to give this a try.  I will let you know how I get on.

Diane

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #157 on: February 26, 2019, 09:46:21 AM »
Diane, how is your spacing coming? I’m struggling with it, too. Sometimes I’m going along, thinking I really have it, only to look back when I’m not so close to the practice sheet, and see that it’s still not all that consistent in places. It’s good to know I’m not alone in struggling a bit with this issue!

Warmly, Debi

Offline Diane Bennett

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #158 on: February 28, 2019, 03:02:42 PM »
@NevadaDeb

Hi Debi,

I am still struggling with spacing.  Like you it looks ok at a glance, but closer inspection shows many inconsistencies, the only time it looks good is when I take my glasses off lol.

It usually takes me a while to get it right so I'm not stressing about it, it will come in time.

At the moment I'm doing sets of five underturns and overturns, but joining them and this has helped a little. 

I suppose as with everything we learn it's down to practice, and I haven't been able to do much in the last couple of months, I work in accountancy and from November to the end of January it's silly season here in the U.K. as tax returns have to be filed.  Now the madness is over and work has eased off I can concentrate again.

Keep going, we will get there.

Take care

Diane

PS.  Take a look at the copperplate challenge thread, it has some useful information regarding spacing.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 03:06:19 PM by Diane Bennett »

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #159 on: March 01, 2019, 01:05:09 AM »
Hi Diane!

I really enjoy your responses. I can’t imagine how busy you must have been during tax season. Here’s hoping you now have time to enjoy some calligraphy practice and still get a full night’s sleep!

I did check out the Calligraphy Challenge you suggested, and I love the exercise Salman put up, of covering the top half of the words “ice,” “lit,” and “tie” to see if the bottom halves are consistent. That was indeed an eye opener!

   However, I didn’t see anything about word spacing, per se, there. I did scout around some more, and came upon a great thread which I cannot find again, so I don’t know where I found it. But the thread title was “Copperplate Script Practice,” and the member was AshK on December 16, 2017. AshK uploaded several sheets of lovely work, and asked for feedback and help with refining. Salman gave fantastic advice on individual letters.

   Forum member Jean Wilson gave advice on spacing between words — and that’s what I wanted to share with you. She linked to her blog, and showed the Ashk’s piece with spacing corrections, which I found extremely helpful. The link to her blog where I found her response is nibsandink.blogspot.com . She uses a minuscule “i” as her guide for spacing between words.

I’m going to be trying that as I work on the “Be not afraid...” piece. Thank you again for your encouragement, and I hope you are now enjoying that calligraphy time you so rightfully deserve after tax season.

Warmly,
Debi


Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #160 on: March 01, 2019, 04:31:46 PM »
My first posting of “be not afraid.” It’s a start, but still see problems, especially in the upright ‘d’s, and the upright ‘y.’ Yet, I see SOME progress. I’m just not where I hoped I’d be by now. Consistency is still a struggle, and there are no graceful words yet. i get more flow when I write freely, not worrying about the letterforms, but then, the letterforms are horrid. So this is a compromise. Clunky.

I must remember (since I’m getting tired of writing this particular quote now!) ...”in time, the grass becomes milk.’


Offline jeanwilson

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #161 on: March 02, 2019, 06:56:00 AM »
I'm flattered that someone remembered my post on word spacing. Also - happy to have another opportunity to remind people that when you practice your word spacing from the very beginning, you will not have to un-learn bad habits.

I found the thread with the previous discussion.

Here is a link if you want to look at the entire thread:

https://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6043.msg73082#msg73082

This is just my portion of the thread and the link:

Salman will have to weigh in on the actual letterforms. I am happy to talk about the amount of space between words since most people leave a bit more than what you see in traditional samples of writing. My scans are too big to post to the forum, so I have put them on my nibs.and.ink blog. It is a blog I use to communicate with people about topics that come up either in classes or on the forum. It is a real hodgepodge of information, but useful for posting images.

I think the examples and comments will be self explanatory.

https://nibsandink.blogspot.com/2017/12/word-spacing.html

I guess I do have another suggestion. If you find an example of work off the IAMPETH website that is perfect in every way, you might enjoy tracing it once and then try reproducing it exactly as it is written without tracing. The tracing will give you a bit of muscle memory which usually makes the non-traced version nearly perfect. There is something very satisfying about creating a duplicate of something that looks way beyond your skill level. Focusing on every single detail can be eye-opening.

The sample I chose has lighter weight shades than your work. You can adjust the weight if you only like the heavier weight. Down the road, you will probably want to be able to write in a variety of weights and slants. I think the degree of slant on the sample is different from yours.

Your work is very impressive. Going through the lessons that Salman offers would most likely resolve any of the minor issues that you are having.


Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #162 on: March 02, 2019, 08:10:57 AM »
Jean Wilson! 

A thousand thank you’s for adding your words of wisdom to this tutorial. What an absolute THRILL to see your name and face pop up here. I feel like I just received an autographed Mickey Mantle baseball card!

I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to help us with spacing problems. It’s enormously helpful, and so very kind of you to share such a cohesive post, with all the information so nicely laid out. I have found your posts on The Flourish Forum extremely helpful, with valuable tips that have made my fledgling efforts with the pointed pen much easier. Finding your blog just the other day was a cornucopia of delight, and certainly a grand motivation to keep pushing through the basics, so that one day I will be able to dance with my pen, too. Your work is immensely inspiring.

Thank you again, Jean. You are so thoughtful and kind!

Offline jeanwilson

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #163 on: March 02, 2019, 10:45:31 AM »
Gosh - thanks for all the kind words --
I hope people understand that my approach is always - find your own balance between loving the process and appreciating that we are at different places on the bell curve.
There are certainly a ton of people who have more traditional skills than I will ever have.
My niche is finding the best way to be creative and if your skills improve - that is the frosting on the cake.
To me, it is sad when people spend years practicing - but never do an actual project.
Envelopes are the perfect project that gets finished and goes some place.
No matter what your skill level - a pretty envelope will brighten someone's day.

My *fun* blog is this one...
https://pushingtheenvelopes.blogspot.com/
There is a new post every single day. Mostly envelopes.
Today, Mar 2 - the post is about a card shower I organized for a lady who turned 99.
She loved all of her envelopes.
There are 4,000 posts on that blog -- plenty of good ideas -- and W-I-D-E range of skill levels.

Thanks again for the kinds words.

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 4
« Reply #164 on: March 02, 2019, 11:08:42 AM »
Jean, you make some very heart-warming points that hit home to me. While I am very diligent about practicing the basics, I reward myself afterwards by doing something that’s just creative and fun, and takes no concentration. I spent several hours on your blog last night (so much for sleep. It’s overrated), and just marveled over the envelopes and how much creativity came alive. I also saw the post about Viola, and spent the next hour following links about Telegrapher’s script and train order operators. What fun!

I just finished a card and envelope for a gentleman named Joe Cuba, who turns 100 in a few days. His wish for his birthday was to receive 100 cards. I’m sure, since it went viral, that he’ll receive thousands. It was great fun practicing my copperplate and combining it with alcohol ink abstract art. Yes, envelopes are highly addictive—and SO enticing!

I want to thank you once again for joining in here to help us on our journey through these basic letterforms, and it’s always a thrill to find encouragement from a Calligraphic Rock Star!

I will be emailing you about other things I found of great interest on your blog — it’s so comprehensive! I don’t want to post things not directly related to Group 4 of Salman’s tutorial, so I’ll say thank you once again, for all the gems of wisdom you have shared. This journey of initial learning is so important, and I feel I need a solid base before anything else. Thank you so much for your invaluable input! I am certain Salman will be smiling when he gets back here, and appreciate that you jumped in to help us with our questions.

Have a lovely weekend!

Warmly,
Debi in Las Vegas (no, I’ve never met Schin, though we live in the same town. But one day, if I ever get past minuscules, I hope to write her a fan letter!)