Copperplate Minuscules - Group 3

[Salman Khattak]

@Chetwyn Clarke

Chet - you have achieved a good enough level to move on :-)

A couple of things still need refinement so please continue to work on this group (and previous ones) as you take on group 4. Here they are:

- Some of the 'o' shapes are not closed properly. It seems to me that you are starting your stroke at 1'o clock and not closing the 'o' properly before starting the shaded stroke in letters like 'd', 'a' etc. Look at the 'o' shape in the 'd' in 'dice' and 'g's in the misspelled 'guage' :-) (especially the second one).

- The final stroke of the 'c' (with the dot at the top) should come down a little more. The dot should be about 1/3rd of the way from the waist line.

- The little shaded blob at the end of the 'v' is a bit too heavy.

I will be looking forward to your work on the next group.

- Salman

[neriah]

@SMK - Hi Salman,

This is my first try at group 3 letters. I am not happy with my g's, ascender loop is too far to the left, I still can't achieve consistency with descender loops. I am not sure about q also - it does look more balanced than g but I am not sure this is how it should look.

Thanks,

Katja

[Salman Khattak]

@neriah

Katja - are you making the descender loop in one stroke? It is easier to come down and back up to the base line in one go. Also, the bottom of the loop should be slightly pointy and not quite as round. This will move the visual weight of the descender up a little.

Make the bottom of the the 'q' descender a little pointy too - this will make it look closer to the 'g's.

The eye of the 'e' should also be a little more pointed at the top so the tiny counter space is more almond shaped.

The 'o' in the second 'tot' is very nicely done.

- Salman

[neriah]

@SMK

Hi Salman,

Thank you for the prompt feedback. I wasn't doing descender loop in one go. I still can't do it, if I do that, loop ends too far to the left. But trying to do it in one go made me realise what I was doing wrong - I would lift too late and started the loop immediately after lift. Now I lift earlier and continue straight line after lift and than make a turn. To me it looks more balanced now.

Katja

[Salman Khattak]

@neriah

This is beautifully written Katja. You have found a good solution to get the loops right. In fact, the reverse of these i.e. the ascender loops, are best drawn in 2 strokes so you are all set for those.

The loop on the 'q' could be a bit pointier to match the other loops but it still appears well balanced.

Please move on to the next group.

- Salman

[Vipul]

@Salman

Hi.
My first attempt at Group 3 letters. Please ignore the smudge, touched it when wet.
Still a bit not sure of the slope of the oval.
The 'a' looks a bit odd to me, but that's probably because my oval needs a bit more slant. Not sure......
I think I've identified the problem with the 'm' I was having... Still have not understood the point about spacing you have made. However, in line with the ice, tie and lit point about spacing and the under curve, I've written the vowels and tried to achieve the same. 'o' is taking one and a half spaces, so kept it in the end. The second group has feathers quite a bit. Rest seem a bit ok.

Awaiting your feedback....

[Vipul]

@Salman Khattak

Hi,
Happy holidays and a merry Christmas to you.

Had to take a longish break as my mom was not well. Was awaiting your comments.

Written out the group 3 alphabet and words again.
Waiting for your comments. I know the compound curve is at a slight off angle.... Need to work on that.

Thanks in advance
Vipul

[Salman Khattak]

@Vipul - I am sorry to hear about your mother's illness.

Your previous post was submitted before you had finished the group 2 letters - hence no feedback.

The thing that stands out most is spacing. It is a bit tricky to get the spacing consistent with letters like 'c' and 'e' matching that of an 'a' and 'o' - the first line is quite varied in this respect but you have achieved a nice balance in 'guage' (should be 'gauge' btw) on the last line.

You have already mentioned one of the issues with the compound curve - it varies in both thickness and slant. I think spending some time on the group 2 letters will benefit you.

The descender loop of the 'g' is off too. The shaded descender should taper off to a hairline by the 1st descender line and continue as a hairline to make the loop below the the 1st descender and back around. This applies to the 'q' as well.

The 'o' stroke is done well but the weight of the shade varies. The 'o' in 'tot' is a good example to follow.

Wishing your mother a quick and full recovery and looking forward to your next submission.

Kind Regards,
Salman

[Vipul]

@Salman

Thanks for your concern regards my mother, and your prompt reply.

Have worked on group 2 words. I think I had my inverted i at a higher angle.

Tried to reduce the thickness of the shaded stroke and descender stroke. I use the 'equal bottoms' test to see if the spacing is correct.

Submitted is my attempt again for your critique.

Regards
Vipul

[Salman Khattak]

@Vipul

Vipul - the first 'g' descender in 'gauge' is better but still not quite right. The 'q' needs more work too. The same feedback applies at the last one above.

The dot at the top of the 'c' should be a bit bolder. See the example I have provided.

Try to make your 'o's a bit narrower. They are closer to a round shape now making the 2-stroke letters like 'a', 'g', 'd' etc. too wide. Also, the 'o's seem to have a higher slant - see the 'o' in 'tot'.

- Salman

[Vipul]

@Salman

Guess the forced break resulted in lots of problems. Practiced the j stroke as well as the compound curve.

Submitted the 3rd group words again. Tried incorporating all the points.

Regards
Vipul

[Salman Khattak]

@Vipul - this is much improved.  The slant and shade of the 'o' strokes is done nicely. You have a tendency to make the top part of the 'o' a bit rounder at time (see the last 'tot' and the second 'd' in 'diced') - most of them are good though so just being aware of this tendency should fix the issue.

The 'j' stroke and the compound curve are still off. The shaded stroke of the 'j' need to taper off earlier and the top part of the compound curve is tool flat on the right side - it needs to start like and inverted 'i'.

Also, the cross bar of the 't' should always be parallel to the waist line. The first one is off in 'tot'.

- Salman

[Vipul]

@Salman

Hi,
Sorry for being late in posting, especially after such prompt feedback.

Practiced both the j and compound stroke. Submitting group 3 words again.

The ink was bleeding a bit as well as the nib snagging, so had to repeat a few words.

Regards
Vipul.

[Salman Khattak]

@Vipul

The 'j' stroke is much improved now - you still have a tendency to keep the shade thick for a bit too long so watch out for that. The first 'g' in 'gauge' on the 2nd line is good.

The next step is to match the loop of the 'q' so it balances with the 'j' stroke. In the above example, the counter space is too flat on the left side and pinched at the bottom. It should be a teardrop/almond shape similar to the counter of the 'j'.

The 'o' in 'tot' is beautifully done but the one in 'dodge' is too round. The 'o' shape still slants a bit more than the rest of the letters.

The compound stroke is standing up a bit in both instances of 'quench'.

The 'ced' in 'diced' are too close together while the width of the 'o' is well done - the exit hairline from this nice thin 'o' needs to go out a bit to achieve more balanced spacing.

It might seem like a bit of a struggle but I can see clear progress - you are very close.

- Salman

[Vipul]

@Salman

Happy New year to you.
Practiced, a bit, and used it to write this. I know it's not part of the syllabus, but just wanted to wish you....

Thanks for all the effort you have put in teaching....