Ready for another question?

[ShawnHoefer]

Oops... that'll make this two questions. The question in the title, and the one that follows...

I feel like I'm getting the forms and motions down. I feel like things are starting to smooth out. I'm finding a rhythm. But, I cannot seem to eliminate blobs. Can any one provide tips and tricks to eliminate these?

[jeanwilson]

We can't critique unless we see which exemplar you are using.
It's important to know if you are trying to learn a traditional form of copperplate or engrossers script
-or-
are you trying to learn how to write a form of penmanship using dip pens that has the thicks and thins but retains the personality of the person doing the writing.

My advice to people who are just getting started is to stick with the G nibs - which are stiffer.
Some people do better when they work on the shapes first and then gradually add heavier shades.
Do you have as many blobs with G nibs?
If they are less blobby - then you might consider sticking with them for a while.

[ShawnHoefer]

This practice session was spent using and comparing both a Tachikawa G and a Brause Steno. I'm using Bienfang Graphic 360 100% rag translucent marker paper over a couple different guide sheets printed from a couple different websites. The inks are Speedball Purple, and Dr. Ph. Martin's Bombay India Aqua. No specific exemplar is being used, but I have been spending a lot of time staring at the Zanerian Manual. I note as I look at the various available examples of Copperplate or Engrossers that there are some forms I like from one, and some from another. And, some in each I do not like. I guess my goal is to have something close to a classic Copperplate, but with increased legibility. For instance, I quite dislike the typical humpbacked p, preferring a closed loop. I will never use the pseudo f shape for an s, either.

[jeanwilson]

I'm with you on the p's.

If you want to go the traditional route - an efficient way to get started is to choose one exemplar or one book -
and stick with it.
The hardest style will be the first one.
Once you learn how to study - each subsequent style will come easier.

How to study?
There is not One Way.
However, people who teach generally recommend an approach that starts with deconstructing the letters - learning the basic strokes -
and then gradually  building letters - in groups of letters that are related.
Does that sound like something you could do?

I'm not suggesting that you can't have some fun and still write out whole words every day -
but it is like ballet - or sports - you really do need to grasp the basic elements before you put them together.
A little bit of discipline up front will make the whole process faster and smoother.

Have you downloaded Joe Vitolo's free e-book?
It covers all the details you need - plus there are videos.
https://books.apple.com/us/book/script-in-the-copperplate-style/id547108521

If you are PC - not Mac - you can still download the whole book and get the videos online.

[FlowerCityLetters]

On an ink-related note that could be contributing to the blobs, I've always found Speedball ink and India inks to not perform well for me. They are either too watery or too thick and the consistency is frustrating. I'd suggest trying walnut ink, or mixing some gouache with water to create an ink, or sumi ink. I'm not sure if you are already doing this, but make sure you are prepping the nibs and not touching them with your fingertips. Unprepped nibs will cause blobs and inconsistent ink flow.

[ShawnHoefer]

All nibs were prepped (lighter, 3 x 1 second passes). I have Yasutomo Sumi, Speedball, and Dr. Ph. Martin's Bombay inks as well as a slew of fountain pen inks (which worked, in some cases, better than the dip pen inks). I have a jar of gum Arabic,a bottle of iron gall ink, and a bottle of walnut ink on their way. I'll go and order a small set of gouache, too. Maybe some liquid watercolors while I'm at it. I kept trying the Dr. Martin's and the Speedball because I wanted the colors (whine, whimper, LOL).

[neriah]

If you want color, gouache is the best thing to buy because you can mix it however fits you the best and you can mix almost any color you want. In total it’s much cheaper than getting all the colors in liquid inks from various manufacturers

[ShawnHoefer]

I'm with you on the p's.

If you want to go the traditional route - an efficient way to get started is to choose one exemplar or one book -
and stick with it.
The hardest style will be the first one.
Once you learn how to study - each subsequent style will come easier.

How to study?
There is not One Way.
However, people who teach generally recommend an approach that starts with deconstructing the letters - learning the basic strokes -
and then gradually  building letters - in groups of letters that are related.
Does that sound like something you could do?

I'm not suggesting that you can't have some fun and still write out whole words every day -
but it is like ballet - or sports - you really do need to grasp the basic elements before you put them together.
A little bit of discipline up front will make the whole process faster and smoother.

Have you downloaded Joe Vitolo's free e-book?
It covers all the details you need - plus there are videos.
https://books.apple.com/us/book/script-in-the-copperplate-style/id547108521

If you are PC - not Mac - you can still download the whole book and get the videos online.

I'm PC, but I have an old iPad and have downloaded the book. I've also, as I've mentioned, downloaded the Zanerian Manual. I've probably logged 100 hours watching and rewatching various YouTube videos, too. I'll admit I haven't watched any of Joe Vitolo's vids, though.

I've also completed  A LOT of form and stroke drills every night before even attempting to write out words and phrases.i just don't post those.

I did experiment with mixing down some of the Speedball inks and using a brush to load the nib. Had a fair amount of success, there. One blob instead of many LOL.

[jeanwilson]

It would be helpful to see a few lines of your writing right next to the exemplar.
If you are interested in traditional - your basic strokes as well as beginning letters and words needs to be hardly discernible from the exemplar.
We are going for precision (I avoid the word perfection - but you do want to get to a point where you can't tell the difference between the exemplar and your writing).
This is why I prefer Vitolo to Winters. Winters has a lot of good information, but you can see her personal penmanship on every page. With Vitolo - he has obliterated his own penmanship.
The job is for your eyes to see -- how close or how far are you from your exemplar.

If you are going for traditional, you have to eliminate all the quirks of your everyday penmanship.
That can be challenging - but you have to train your eyes to see how well you are doing at replicating the exemplar - at the same time you are building the muscle memory on the brand new shapes.

Salman performed miracles with people who were willing to stick with his method. Have you looked at his exemplars?
I don't think he has time to work with people online any more - but if we can find a thread that shows the progress of one of his students
it might help you to see the steps that you will need to take.

As someone who has taught for quite a while, I can tell you that one of the biggest hurdles is getting people to look back and forth between the exemplar and their writing f.r.e.q.u.e.n.t.l.y. People think they have the specific shape in their head long before they actually do. So they are approximating-approximating-approximating. Followed by hoping-hoping-hoping that if they keep approximating, they will eventually hit the mark.

It doesn't work that way. The sooner you slow down and make very specific shapes that are precise and approaching perfect - the sooner you will get the new way of constructing the letters and words - locked into your muscle memory AND your actual memory in your brain. You will never permanently obliterate your original penmanships yearning to sneak in. It will always sneak in. But you will get the correct shapes memorized and be able to form them from memory -- if you take the time to do the preliminary work.

As always, I recommend some tracing - just enough to give your hand-eyes an opportunity to see that you are able to make the precise shapes. Think of tracing as training wheels. Use them to give yourself the feeling and the confidence - before you race off on your own.

For what it's worth - I think people do better at hitting the guidelines when they are writing on lined paper. John Neal's copperplate practice pads are very nice.
And -- we have not mentioned McCaffrey's ink. Once I found it - I ditched all the other inks - as it is dreamy with pointed nibs and comes in lots of fun colors. Some people do not like how thin they are - but, many of us love them.