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Messages - neriah

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@darrin1200 I donít think you understand my analogy. Playing Beethovenís 5th would be like rewriting a page from The Universal Penman. In this analogy, Beethoven is a very famous penman, not the whole style/script.

Playing Beethoven 5th on modern instruments is the same thing as rewriting a page from The Universal Penman in a pencil. Yes, it is inspired by it and a modern/different take on it, but it is not the same thing as if it were done using instruments it was written for - music wonít have the same sound nor feel and our page wonít have the same look nor feel.

As to what is copperplate - I would very much appreciate your sources. Defining copperplate is indeed quite tricky due to many variations, and especially since it was being used in business to write official documents so the quality varies between samples we do have. The Universal Penman is a compilation of best of the best England had to offer when it came to copperplate script and that is the script I think of when I say copperplate (and what is considered English roundhand). There are elements of that script which just canít be executed in a pencil as precise as they can be executed with a quill or a steel pointed nib. From the contrast in thick/think lines (especially with larger x-height), to overturns (minuscule m and n) to underturns (minuscule i and u). Majuscules get even less precise. So while electrical guitars can play the same notes Beethoven wrote for orchestra, it wonít be classical music as rewriting The Universal Penman in pencil would not be copperplate.

I donít think there is anything wrong in experimenting and modifying historical scripts to fit modern tools. However, no I do not think it is copperplate.

Historical copperplate has a standard of execution when it comes to the tools, proportions and the slant. If one of that is missing, it is not copperplate. It can be a modern adaptation of copperplate or a modern script inspired by copperplate. There is nothing wrong with that, but I do think it is wrong to claim it is copperplate because it is not. The same way playing Bachís preludes on electrical guitar is not what we consider classical music.

Experimenting with traditional calligraphy and making it your own is completely fine, just be fair to your audience and say what is it you are doing. The only thing I dislike about such videos is people claiming they are doing traditional script when they are not.

Broad Edge Pen Calligraphy / Re: New to italic - looking for feedback
« on: December 31, 2019, 04:10:04 AM »
@jeanwilson thank you for the feedback!

I will try vertical italic, but I suspect straight lines will give me trouble too - I am so used to that 55 degree angle I find it very hard to adjust to something less severe.

I did start learning in groups. I followed Patricia Lovettís videos on youtube and she presents letters in groups. However, after some time my practice did become less structured and all over the place. I will go back to practicing in groups as you suggest.

@K-2 that is an interesting view on tracing. I certainly havenít considered it from that point of the view. I personally start with the brain side of things due to not having as much time as I want for calligraphy. I use my lunch break, waiting in lines, and other downtime to just look at exemplars and try to understand as much as possible without having my pen with me. That way, that time I do have for practice is spent the best because I am already prepared and know exactly what I want to focus on. I also find it less frustrating - I am having a very hard time letting my brain go. I think about every stroke I do and I donít know how to just use muscle memory. Trying to use muscle memory and failing is what frustrates me because I canít point to exact spot which is wrong and say if I do this and that it will look right. To be honest, I think being able to stop thinking of every stroke would help me to have more practice time because I would be able to practice after work. Right now I canít focus enough after work to have any meaningful practice sessions.

I do line some sheets with slant lines closer together but I use those for single letter practice because spacing isnít all even and at some point where letter should be and where slant line is wonít match. I find that confusing and it messes my spacing because my brain wants the lines to align. Right now spacing between my slant lines is approximately the width of 3 Ďní letters which is enough of a guideline but itís not confusing.

Broad Edge Pen Calligraphy / Re: New to italic - looking for feedback
« on: December 29, 2019, 02:59:29 AM »
@K-2 thank you for the feedback!

I did have drawn guidelines while writing (baseline, x-height, ascender and descender lines, 5 degree slant and 45 degree pen angle). I erased them afterwards to make it look more like a finished piece. My daily practice is also done on drawn guidelines. It’s just that with this nib ascenders are long and I am so used to 55 degree pointed pen slant that my italic ends up tipping over.

I did not trace exemplars, I do that only if nothing else works. I need to understand how every letter is created and what makes it look good. If I don’t understand that I find it very hard to improve my script because I can’t focus on smaller elements and practice them until I can execute them well consistently. I’ll try to spend more time with s, if I don’t get it, I’ll trace over :)



Broad Edge Pen Calligraphy / New to italic - looking for feedback
« on: December 27, 2019, 04:56:36 AM »
Hi everyone!

Italic has been on my todo list forever. Now I finally have bit more time to dedicate for italic practice. - unfortunately I couldnít attach picture from ipad (jpeg is not allowed, only jpg) so I uploaded it to imgur.

My goal with this quote was to move away from single letters and minimums and to try and figure out how different letters interact with each other. I know that spacing should be parallel lines which works great for some letters but not so much for Ďoí, Ďsí and similar. As expected spacing is all over the place, and Ďsí is a mystery to me. Things I do see when it comes to spacing: ďsubstituteĒ fell apart after Ďií, Ďoí in ďforĒ is too close to Ďfí, Ďdí in ďhardĒ should be moved slightly to the right and Ďkí in ďworkĒ looks wrong but I donít think it could go closer to Ďrí (and is off slant).

When it comes to letterforms, Ďsí is awful, I still struggle with slant in ascenders, and I still have issues with Ďoí but itís not as bad as it used to be.

This was done on canson montval paper with sumi ink and leonardt round 2 nib (no reservoir, loaded with brush).

Looking forward to feedback :)

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: Calligraphy in the UK
« on: October 27, 2019, 03:18:36 AM »
This one is on my todo list:

My visit to London was before my calligraphy days, but the next time I visit, this store is the first location I will visit :)

Guidelines / Re: Guidelines
« on: September 26, 2019, 02:50:58 PM »
@AnasaziWrites thatís interesting, it doesnít work for me in chrome. It seems to be geo blocked - I canít access it fromEU but using USA proxy I can access it.

@Angelica acosta it may or may not work depending on your location

Guidelines / Re: Guidelines
« on: September 24, 2019, 01:44:00 AM »
@Angelica acosta it seems as itís not maintained any more. Hosting a webpage has some costs and author probably decided itís not worth it. Or it was on some free plan which expired.

I have been using this one and itís my favorite due to all the options although being in LaTeX itís not the most intuitive one.

Open Flourish | General Discussion / Re: Ready for another question?
« on: September 23, 2019, 12:04:09 PM »
If you want color, gouache is the best thing to buy because you can mix it however fits you the best and you can mix almost any color you want. In total itís much cheaper than getting all the colors in liquid inks from various manufacturers :)

Tools & Supplies / Re: Carrying Ink?
« on: July 14, 2019, 12:13:08 PM »
Iíve never had to bring lots of ink with me, but whenever I go to vacation I pack couple of things - gouache, walnut crystals and empty ink bottles (similar to dinky dips). Once I reach my destination, I mix needed colors and use them as I would at home. Before leaving I empty and wash bottles so I donít have issues at the airport and I donít want to risk spilling. For extra protection, everything is packed inside ziplock bags. The only thing I have in my carry on are holders, everything else I pack in checked bag. I know gouache can travel in the suitcase, but just in case, I leave printed product sheet info with it.

Tools & Supplies / Re: Ken Brown Calligrapher
« on: June 26, 2019, 11:57:22 AM »
The scenario in which this is justified cost does not exist. But that doesnít stop me from wanting to buy the set 🙈

I just have to say that this course is the best thing I ever did for my calligraphy. Course is incredibly detailed and lets you go through materials at your own pace. I still havenít done last lessons because I am going through Majuscules again. I go back to materials very often and I see something new every time I do that. I am looking forward to getting to small projects part, but I donít want to rush it.

David is awesome instructor, and community he created is awesome as well. You will never feel alone in your struggles and there is always someone you can discuss things with and practice with. I canít recommend this course enough :)

Open Flourish | General Discussion / Re: Writing surface preference
« on: March 29, 2019, 04:47:52 AM »
@matteherr I disagree with your conclusion that flat surface for pointed pen is just due to how old books are presenting materials. Also, technique and form differs quite a lot between 16th century round hand or 20th century Engrosser's script.

To be able to write with pointed pen you need help of gravity if you want your ink to reach the paper. Pointed pen ink is thinner than one you'd use for broad edge, and if you are writing on too sloped surface, you'll have some trouble with ink flow. Also, if you are doing Engrosser's script, you need to be able to rotate your paper freely and hold it at certain angle towards your body. This becomes very tricky to do if your sloped surface is not large enough.

I am not saying pointed pen cannot be done on sloped surface, but I find it much easier to do it on flat.

Open Flourish | General Discussion / Re: Hand carved pen holder
« on: March 12, 2019, 04:57:17 AM »
It looks awesome!!!

I was convinced you need a lathe to make your own holders and lathe isn't apartment friendly tool :P. This post made my day, can't wait to try making my own :)

P.S. I believe this is the video:

Open Flourish | General Discussion / Re: too much ink on nib?
« on: October 11, 2018, 04:53:38 AM »

Are you wiping the nib with a cloth? What I do is stop every 3-5 minutes, dip my nib in water, clean with cloth, dip in water again, dry it with cloth, dip in ink, go with nib over the edge of ink bottle to remove some of the ink and then write.

From what you are describing it seems to me there is water on your nib after you clean it with water? If that is so, water which remains there will mix with the ink and make it too thin. You need to dry your nib before dipping it into ink again.

Hope this helps!

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