Author Topic: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe  (Read 13508 times)

Offline tintenfuchs

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Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« on: March 02, 2014, 01:57:31 PM »
(Click on the image to view on Amazon for US members.)

This book was the first one I ever bought on pointed pen calligraphy: http://www.amazon.de/Modern-Calligraphy-Everything-Started-Script/dp/1250016320/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393785766&sr=8-1&keywords=molly+suber+thorpe
I was very excited because of the very promising title and because everything was just so pretty. Unfortunately, I was just as disappointed when I actually read the book. I was expecting suggestions for inks, nibs, paper etc, instead Molly always said: Try everything, you'll find what's right. Which, in my opinion, isn't helpful for a real beginner AT ALL. I bought tons of nibs and holders and was none the wiser for it. Thankfully, I stumbled upon various (free) online resources that suggested stuff for beginners!
There's also a chapter on digitizing calligraphy, which basically says: "Scan it in, make it greyscale, done!"

I also had some serious trouble with her description of how to hold the pen, I simply didn't get it. She makes it seem unnecessarily complicated. What's more, she doesn't go into important things such as the basic forms the most letters consist of at all. She just shows pretty pictures of her various letterforms, but that's about it.

The book is very nice to look at, if you like her style (and I do, even though Barbara Calzolari made me be ashamed of it) and the projects in it are nice, too - if you have an unlimited budget and can go buy custom-made stamps and all sorts of paper and colors. But for beginners, it's really no good, I think. There are some interesting intermediate techniques in there though, like how to make gouache calligraphy-ready.
All in all, I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner. I don't know if I stopped being a beginner yet, but it still doesn't help me. To me, the book felt more like Molly wanted to appear a gracious teacher and all, while keeping the actual ways to build skill to herself. Or she doesn't know them either, which was Barbara Calzolari's theory ;)

I'm sure some of you have read this one, and I'm curious what you think!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 01:20:55 AM by Erica McPhee »
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Offline Linda Y.

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 02:24:06 PM »
I think Molly's book is lovely, and makes calligraphy "accessible" to beginners who want to try but may be too scared to. I bought it for my sister-in-law who wanted to try calligraphy. I see Molly's book as a message: "just pick up a pen and nib and give it a try, look how pretty it can be!"

Her book and her style really is what the cover says - "Modern Calligraphy," which I know we've talked about it at great lengths here at Flourish - actually "writing" the letters vs. "drawing" them. Molly is a self-taught calligrapher whose style is very much loved and cherished by the masses, while Barbara Calzolari is a classically-, formally- trained calligrapher who has studied from the best of the best.

To make another comparison - it's like someone who doesn't know how to cook AT ALL, picking up a recipe book by Rachel Ray (sorry, I can only think of an American celebrity) who has her own line of cookbooks, cookware, TV show, etc. etc., and they think, "Oh wow, Rachel makes it look so easy to cook and have fun!" And the beginer cook is not intimidated because Rachel makes it look so easy. And on the other hand, we have Julia Child and Jacques Pipin, classically-trained in French cuisine, and whose recipes and techniques can seem very intimidating to a beginner.

I personally do not have Molly's book because someday I want to be as good as Julid Child and Jacques Pipin. :) But I am very very glad we have people like Molly who is making so many people interested in calligraphy and who want to give it a try and make pretty projects.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 02:27:23 PM by Linda Y. »

Offline NikkiB

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 04:42:10 PM »
I have the book (the first and only in my 'collection' so far ;)) I bought it after deciding I wanted to learn pointed pen and I think you both make very relevant points.

The book is lovely to look at and the exemplars and project are inspiring, achievable and accessible especially if you enjoy creative pursuits.  It definitely makes you itch to pick up a pen but also I agree with sister of dream that you would also need to some other resource in order to teach you the basics. 

In fact this is precisely the reason why I am here on this forum  :)

So thank you Molly for leading me here and inspiring me to embark on a new creative journey :)


Nikki x

Offline Nickkih

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 04:55:05 PM »
I totally agree with Nikkib on this one. I too wouldn't have found all of you and my love for pointed pen with out the purchase of Molly's book.

I also agree that it's not at all a instruction manual. But I don't think that was her purpose. It's a fabulous introduction to this beautiful world of pointed pen. In my opinion :-)

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Offline Linda Y.

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 04:57:54 PM »
Another thought I just had - there are SO MANY modern calligraphy workshops available now, whether it be online or in person. When I first became interested in pointed pen calligraphy, there were only books and the local calligraphy guild with workshops in "classic" calligraphy, and so that is how I learned and got started.

I won't name names, but one modern calligrapher's workshop promo I came across had this tagline: "Not your grandma's calligraphy!" I take offense to that. I LOVE grandma's calligraphy! >:(

Offline Lori M

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 01:46:39 PM »
I have to agree with you all. To me, it is the book equivalent of a modern calligraphy workshop that I recently went to:  the students just wanted to learn enough to address their own wedding invitations and will probably never do any calligraphy beyond that. I suspect there is a lot of that out there right now due to Pinterest and the internet.

The workshop was at a wedding store and only two of us had ever picked up a calligraphy pen before. The nibs were not for beginners (Hunt 101, Globe 513EF, and 99). The holders were straight and the ink was Dr. Ph Martins India. The teacher was from a wedding calligraphy company that does beautiful work and was very sweet and helpful. But there was no instruction on letter forms, just copy pages with some basic strokes. There was a beautiful exemplar that she admitted was not good for beginners. The basic philosophy seemed to be "just practice till you like it". (All of this for 3 figures... but I digress.  ;) ).

At the end she recommended Molly's book, which I did buy. I'm glad I have it for inspiration, but it's definitely not a beginner's "how-to" book.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 04:03:23 PM by Lori M »

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 12:12:47 AM »
I think you all raise some valid points and I did find some inaccuracies in the first chapter of the book which I think are unfortunate since the book is so widely received – especially for beginners.

However, I think it is important to remember – for the most part – Molly's book and the modern calligraphers teaching classes are not teaching traditional calligraphy. They are trying to convey how to develop your own style while not being constrained by the “rules” of traditional calligraphy. This “simplified” version, if you can call it that, draws more on your personal style of writing than the true crafting of calligraphic letter forms. Modern calligraphy letters do not follow a basic form. That is the whole point which is a thorn in the side of many traditional calligraphers because it is misleading for the many beginners who think they can take a modern calligraphy class and master it right away.

The fact it does look easy is, in my mind, not a plus, but discouraging because, as many of you have found, it is not easy, no matter what style you are attempting. There is no getting around it – if you want to learn the breakdown of  how to do calligraphy letter forms, you must learn a traditional hand. Otherwise, you would only learn that one teacher's style. You can't teach 10 different a's, 10 different b's, etc. in a concise manner. But you can teach the traditional copperplate strokes which comprise all the letters and then teach how to develop a style. OR, you can teach someone how to use the pen and then let them run with it with some examples as a guide (which is essentially what Molly's book attempts).

In any event, thorough instruction is one of the shortfalls of  many how-to calligraphy books. The instruction section can be tedious and many skip through it altogether to “get to the good stuff.” But it's important to consider the style of the book. Molly's book is more about introducing the modern style rather than a step-by-step how to learn calligraphy like Eleanor Winter's Mastering Copperplate book.

It is also important to give credit where credit is due. Molly's book is truly one of a kind. While she doesn't give a complete exemplar (in keeping with the “developing your own” theme), she does give a wide variety of letter styles for every letter.

But the real strength of the book, in my opinion, other than the features of her beautiful work, are the projects. She gives 20 (TWENTY) really nice projects with great photos. Each one is both do-able and desirable! I definitely recommend the book for the projects and examples of Molly's work alone.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:17:07 AM by Erica McPhee »
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Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 12:19:21 AM »
Lori, I'm so sorry your class wasn't what you hoped.  :-[ Such a let down. I hope it doesn't discourage you from seeking out other classes.
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Offline Lori M

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 02:22:40 AM »
Not to worry, Erica. :) The only thing that really bothered me was that I paid so much for it -- I still enjoyed it as practice time!

I have joined my local calligraphic society and am going to a pointed-pen class and a bookmaking class this weekend. I'm so excited! I hope to get the more rigorous instruction type of instruction I had in school. There are a lot of long-time, traditional calligraphers in the society and it's been around since I was in college. A college friend's mom was actually a founding member!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 02:26:24 AM by Lori M »

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 10:56:40 AM »
Oh that sounds wonderful! I hope you'll tell us about what you learned when you return!  :)
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Offline Linda Y.

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 03:26:50 PM »
I really think the guild is the way to go if anyone is serious about calligraphy. Looking forward to hearing about your classes, Lori!

Offline BaileyR

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 10:21:56 PM »
I have not worked from Molly's book but it looks really nice. I look forward to reading it.
My personal opinion about calligraphy that I try to share on our blog and in workshops is that it is very important to learn traditional calligraphy if you want to have a modern style. It wasn't until I really learned Copperplate that I could start doing more funky things with the pointed pen.

I'm so saddened to hear Lori M's experience because I do think that there is a lot of that going on right now--and Pinterest is definitely not helping things. But it is very exciting that there is so much interest in calligraphy!

Linda Y. I totally agree. Guilds are where it's at:)

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Offline Starlee

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2014, 09:25:38 AM »
I agree with a lot of these posts, particularly the first two. What I enjoyed most from the book as all the different examples of individual letterforms.
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Offline patweecia

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2014, 10:45:44 PM »
Here's my two cents.

I bought Molly's book.  I actually liked it...it gave me ideas on what to do with calligraphy if I want to learn it on my own.  Most of her "instructions," for me, are generally guidelines because in the end it is me who's going to decide and develop my own style.  I find her calligraphy very modern and pretty (and can I say, luscious, especially when she showed the bold strokes in pretty colors haha), and I would follow her probably if I want to go for that style.  Then again, even if I do like the modern style of calligraphy, her hand isn't the same as mine.  Her letters wouldn't be the same as mine.  Ultimately, I would have to develop my own style based on what she has shown on the book. 

I remember what most of my university professors told us in class...if you want to write well, you have to read a lot.  Because it is through reading that you would "subconsciously" acquire what is good and bad in terms of writing style and all that.

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Offline Starlee

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Re: Modern Calligraphy by Molly Suber Thorpe
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 05:52:05 AM »
Patweecia, I think what your university profs were referring to there was writing content. Reading helps improve vocabulary, grammar and writing style in the way the words come together. That said, looking at other examples of calligraphy (and not reading for content), and studying how others formed the letters, paying attention to letter height, where the thickness is, how the flourishes are made, etc. is what will help writing style in terms of letter formation. Reading to improve writing and studying writing to improve one's own calligraphy are two very different goals.
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