Author Topic: A few questions from a newbie  (Read 5026 times)

Offline paintedletter

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A few questions from a newbie
« on: April 19, 2014, 06:02:34 PM »
Hello!  I am very new at pointed pen and have been following the very helpful tutorials. I've been at it for a week and a half now and have a few questions that I'm hoping some of you could help me with. I started out for the first week with the Hunt 101 (Imperial) and really loved the thicks and thins it provided. I then ordered the Hunt 22, Nikko G and the Zebra G. I couldn't believe the difference in flexibility! The Hunt 101 is super flexible compared to the others. I think I prefer the Zebra G over all of them because it's flexible but not as flexible as the Hunt 101. Does anyone have any suggestions on something between the Hunt 101 and Zebra G? I like the Nikko G but it is a little stiff for me and seems to be a little scratchy. Here are some of my other questions:

1. I've heard of people having water to dip their nib every once in a while. Is this to help with paper fibers getting caught in the nib? I tend to have a problem with that with the sharper nibs.

2. I seem to have to dip my pen every 6-9 letters, sometimes more. Is this normal? It seems like I'm just getting in "the zone" when I have to dip and start all over again! If this is normal, I'll just learn to deal with it but I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

3. I am using the Hammermill 28lb copy paper and Higgins Eternal ink. The Higgins seems to bleed a little on the copy paper. Should I try the Sumi (Brown bottle or Moon Palace) or Walnut ink or try the HP Laser paper?

4. Is it best to write on an incline or on a flat surface?

Thank you so much for helping a newbie!

Tracie
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 06:05:22 PM by paintedletter »

Offline garyn

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2014, 06:30:25 PM »
@Tracie
I am still a novice, but here is what I learned...so far.

#1.  The ink will dry on the nib and degrades how the nib writes.  You need to periodically clean the dry ink off the nib.  Higgins Eternal is much better than Speedball acrylic ink (which I used to use) which dried and caked on the nib.  As for cleaning paper fibers, that is more than dipping, I have to clean the nib with a tissue to get the paper fibers out from between the tines. 

I am still a novice with the pointed pen, and what I was told and am learning is that I need to learn to write lightly to keep the tip of pointed nib from scratching and digging the paper.  I try to float the tip of the nib on the paper so that it is barely touching, and that seems to work for me.  But it is still hard for me to do it consistently.

#2.  Dip the nib into the ink so that the hole in the nib is covered with ink.  That should put more ink onto the nib.  However, if you are making WIDE lines, that will use up a LOT of ink from the nib, so you will have to dip more often.

#3.  Not all paper is good to use with fountain or dip pens.  I use Hammermill 28# Color Copy Digital.  However, it has a querk, it has 2 different sides with different writing characteristics.  I discovered this the other day when I could not get fine lines on the back of the sheet, but I could get fine lines on the front ????   
- Get a sheet of it, and keep track of which side was up and down when you take it out of the package. 
- Then write on one side then the other. 
You should see a difference in how the ink behaves on the paper.  The trick is to keep track of which side of paper is better and which way the paper is in the pack, so that you can take a sheet out and KNOW which side to write on.

#4.  I think an inclined surface is better, but it is not always possible.  The incline makes it easier to reach further, but that is more a concern for drafting, where the paper is taped down onto the table and you need to reach to the top of the sheet.  But I still think it is more comfortable to have a slight incline to the work surface.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 07:03:54 PM by garyn »
Gary

Offline Starlee

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2014, 08:39:57 PM »
Hi Tracie,

I, too, am quite new to this (just started in January). But here is what I've figured out so far. I agree with Gary that cleaning the nib definitely helps keep the ink flowing (no caking) and helps remove fibres as well. I dry the nib on a microfibre cloth or another rag type thing (less fibres come off of it than Kleenex or paper towel) before dipping in for more ink.

As for dipping, I don't completely submerge my nib. I find it wasteful and I don't like getting the ink too close to my holder, but I do submerge it to the breather hole (but even this isn't necessary). I have a scratch pad next to me to test the nib before I start writing.

I first started with Hunt nibs as well. They were hard to use for a beginner. However, I did continue with them (because I wanted to make sure this was a hobby that was going to stick around before I invested in more nibs), but I found that getting used to them made the other nibs a breeze once I changed. :) The flexibility of the Hunt nibs and the other one you described is definitely not for the heavy handed. Easy up on the hand heaviness comes with time. With each lesson, I would focus on how the pen works. As I understand the mechanics of the pen and my comfortability grows, I am finding that my hand is getting lighter and lighter. As with most things, practice is crucial, but quality of practice is key. Regarding dipping, I find the frequency is nib-dependent. The Hunt's I was dipping every letter it seemed. My current favourite nib (Leonardt Principle EF), I can write almost a whole line without re-dipping.

I use practice pads from John Neal with blue grid lines on each page. Even with Sumi ink, I still get some feathering. So I'm not sure that changing ink will help per se. But to be fair, I haven't played around with different inks too much yet.

It seems that many people prefer writing on an incline. I've never tried it yet, so sorry I can't help there. I enjoy a flat surface just fine though. I hope this helps!
Star

Offline paintedletter

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2014, 09:39:51 PM »
Thank you for the help! Gary - that is interesting about the Hammerhill paper having 2 different sides, that's a huge help, I'm looking forward to testing it out! Starlee - you mentioned that you use the grid paper. I have the graph Rhodia paper and really love the sharpness I get with the ink but how are you using the grid lines? Are you putting a lined template underneath and using a light table? I am really wishing that I got the unlined pad. I am definitely going to test out the Leonardt Principle EF - thanks for the tip!

Offline garyn

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2014, 10:51:02 PM »
A follow up on #2.
RandalC told me a about another technique, to use a brush to put ink on your nib.  In a video that I was watching, the writer would ink his pen several times on the same letter.  What this does is to control the "over-inking" of the pen and danger of dropping a blop of ink on the page, or an overly WET nib.  But you ink the pen more often.
Watch this video and you can see where he uses a brush to ink his pen.
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/172642-video-lesson-from-hermann-zapf/

Follow up on #3.
There are a few DIFFERENT Hammermill 28# papers.
The one that I am using is Color Copy Digital.  It had the smoothest surface of the 28# Hammermill papers that I saw at Office Depot.
I think there is a Laser and maybe an inkjet paper also.
Based on my experience, I would check all blank papers to see if there is a different performance on both sides, and note the side that works best for your pen and ink.

The HP 32# Premium paper is NICE.
But I would first see if you can figure out the problem with the 28# paper first, so you don't waste it.  But if the 28# paper does not behave, then dump it.  It is very frustrating to use substandard paper, because you see it every time you stroke the pen.

Gary

Offline Starlee

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 06:52:52 AM »
My practice paper has the grids and slant angle it. I don't use a light table either. I am taking small steps in my purchases. I've put my money in ink, nibs and paper first. I use good-quality blank paper for 'good projects'
Star

Offline tintenfuchs

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 07:13:16 AM »
Hi! Here's my two Cents:
2. This actually seems a Lot of words to me, how small are your letters? And don't worry about it, you will get used to the dipping and soon you won't even notice you're doing it.  :)

3. Higgins often bleeds, just add a few drops of gum arabic and stir well. I'd also recommend McCaffery's Iron Gall ink, it doesn't bleed at all and gives super fine hairlines.
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Offline AndyT

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 09:30:23 AM »
Hello Tracie,

I don't know the Zebra G, but the Gillott 404 is a touch stiffer than the Hunt 101 so might be worth a try.  I'd be inclined to persevere with the Imperial though, it's actually quite forgiving compared to some and will encourage a light touch.

Offline Starlee

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 10:07:37 AM »
Andie, I've tried the Gillott 404. I don't mind it, but do you find the nibs scratchy?
Star

Offline Linda Y.

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 12:56:42 PM »
I personally find the Gillott notorious at catching on paper, especially with upstrokes, because the points are so sharp - even with very smooth paper. It creates lovely hairlines, but IMHO for the advance-beginner, and not a nib to try when I started out. You might want to try the Hiro 41, but find a good batch if possible. There is a post floating around about defective Hiro 41s.


Quote
1. I've heard of people having water to dip their nib every once in a while. Is this to help with paper fibers getting caught in the nib? I tend to have a problem with that with the sharper nibs.

You definitely need to clean your nib often - especially if you're working on a final piece. Having a piece of fiber caught in the nib will ruin your piece, and having ink building up on your nib will thicken your hairlines.


Quote
2. I seem to have to dip my pen every 6-9 letters, sometimes more. Is this normal? It seems like I'm just getting in "the zone" when I have to dip and start all over again! If this is normal, I'll just learn to deal with it but I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong.

Definitely normal. You'll have to make dipping part of being "in the zone" ;D


Quote
3. I am using the Hammermill 28lb copy paper and Higgins Eternal ink. The Higgins seems to bleed a little on the copy paper. Should I try the Sumi (Brown bottle or Moon Palace) or Walnut ink or try the HP Laser paper?

Higgins is a great practice ink but it will bleed on many paper. I haven't tried copy paper but I use a super smooth Marker Pad paper for practice (you can get Canson Marker Pad in 9x12 at Michael's Arts & Crafts with their 40% off coupons). Higgins will work great with it. It's also semi-translucent, so you can slip a piece of guide sheet underneath as you practice.


Quote
4. Is it best to write on an incline or on a flat surface?

For pointed pen - flat, and for broad-edged pen - incline.



Offline AndyT

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 01:17:51 PM »
Andie, I've tried the Gillott 404. I don't mind it, but do you find the nibs scratchy?

Well, not so much since I started fooling around with 303s.  :)

In both cases  it's more a matter of them just being sharp I reckon ... it's not like the scratchiness you'd feel with a misaligned fountain pen nib, just something which is in the nature of very fine nibs.  The way around it seems to be notably smooth paper and a very light touch on upstrokes, and a low pen angle makes a big difference too.  I'm still amazed at how twitchy those 303s are, but it's slowly getting easier with practice.  Early days ...

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 08:18:12 PM »
Ah - we have such wonderful members - a great compilation of answers and experiences to help guide you!

I just want to add, the Nikko G's seem stiff and scratchy at first but I find they have a definite breaking in period more than any other nib I use. And once you get to the "sweet spot" they are ideal. And then they wear out and become super scratchy and it's time to say goodbye!  ;D

Before the Nikko G's and Hiro 41's, I used to use Hunt 56s and Gillott  303s and 404s. They take much more restraint and much "finickier" - so many more unexpected splats.

I gave up on Higgins long ago. Sumi, McCaffrey's, or Walnut for me.
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Offline paintedletter

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 09:58:10 PM »
Wow, thanks for all of the helpful information. Because of the help, I feel much more confident about all of this today than a did just a few days ago!  I am going to keep practicing and purchase a few more nibs to try out. I'm really loving this so far and find it good for my concentration problem!

Offline RandalC

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2014, 10:32:39 PM »
On FPN, Mickey swears by the Esterbrook 357, a vintage nib that is fairly easy to find. So, on a lark, I bought ten @ 70 cents each. Wow! what a difference. For good work, guess I'll be using vintage nibs.

Best of luck and enjoy,

Offline Heebs

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Re: A few questions from a newbie
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 03:06:42 AM »
On FPN, Mickey swears by the Esterbrook 357, a vintage nib that is fairly easy to find. So, on a lark, I bought ten @ 70 cents each. Wow! what a difference. For good work, guess I'll be using vintage nibs.

Best of luck and enjoy,

The 357 is my current go-to nib, I really like the amount of flex on it. The 358 is also really nice for longer lines with a little less shading.