Author Topic: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?  (Read 5248 times)

Offline Elisabeth_M

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 459
  • Karma: 28
    • View Profile
    • Instagram
My four year old daughter has been interested in "pretend writing" (scribbles) for awhile, now, but has recently begun to be interested in making "real" letters.  Most people start teaching their children "print" (ball and stick) letters at this point, but some Montessori schools (and maybe Waldorf?) start the kids with cursive letters right away (usually Danerian as far as I can tell).  I'm hoping to get her into a local Montessori school (K-8) but if I don't, public school will almost assuredly teach her print.  And maybe not cursive at all.  So, I am inclined to start her with cursive, particular since her pretend writing is all cursive-like, in that it's sort of like long, connected zig-zags all across the page.  The question is, which type of cursive do I start her on?  I can do cursive Italic and there's a whole program for children put together by Getty Dubay.  But American cursive is closer to what she would learn in school if the school does teach cursive.  For that, I would look at Michael Sull's work which is for older kids, we could go slow.  Spencerian would really be business hand and it is really popular in the homeschooling community (as is cursive Italic).

So, if you were to teach a small child some form of cursive writing, which would you choose?  I'm leaning toward teaching cursive Italic, since I am familiar with it or both of us learning Spencerian/business writing together which might be fun (or not!).
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

Instagram

Offline jeanwilson

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1079
  • Karma: 165
    • View Profile
    • Pushing the Envelopes
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2016, 12:56:56 PM »
IMHO cursive italic seems like the most versatile and best to dovetail with whatever she learns in school.

Offline AndyT

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2093
  • Karma: 150
    • View Profile
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2016, 01:44:15 PM »
I wouldn't want to venture a strong opinion on the subject, but the estimable Gunnlaugur SE Briem is not so reticent.  The little booklet available for free download here comes down firmly in the cursive Italic camp, and he's highly persuasive.  Well worth a read.  The link is to an automatic download of a zip file, depending on how you have your browser set up.

Offline FirebirdArts

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 49
  • Karma: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 04:40:44 AM »
I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the various cursives in regular everyday handwriting.  I've only learned recently that there is American Cursive, British Cursive, and Filipino Cursive (seriously I had no idea), and I would like to see more of it but when I used google I mainly got American cursive, which bored and frustrated me...

Offline Estefa

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1508
  • Karma: 122
    • View Profile
    • Federflug
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2017, 01:37:33 PM »
I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the various cursives in regular everyday handwriting.  I've only learned recently that there is American Cursive, British Cursive, and Filipino Cursive (seriously I had no idea), and I would like to see more of it but when I used google I mainly got American cursive, which bored and frustrated me...

I guess there are hundreds :). Here are two that are commonly teached in Germany:

https://www.amazon.de/dp/3834603708/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=556245207&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=3867232180&pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_r=CXSBZ75Q2JSBKRCWP6B3

and

https://www.amazon.de/Schulausgangsschrift-Schreiblernheft-Lena-Morgenthau/dp/3834603716/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1479810528&sr=1-1&keywords=schulausgangsschrift+schreiblernheft+morgenthau

The second one is a simplified version of the first, which in itself is a (very) simplified monoline, less lanted version of English Roundhand aka Copperplate.
Stefanie :: Website :: Blog :: Instagram

Offline AAAndrew

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1009
  • Karma: 115
    • View Profile
    • The Steel Pen Blog
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2017, 01:58:45 PM »
I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the various cursives in regular everyday handwriting.  I've only learned recently that there is American Cursive, British Cursive, and Filipino Cursive (seriously I had no idea), and I would like to see more of it but when I used google I mainly got American cursive, which bored and frustrated me...

Not so sure about anywhere else, but during the golden age of American Penmanship (about 1820 to 1930 or so), Americans applied their distinctive gift for marketing and came up with dozens if not hundreds of different handwriting "methods" and styles. You can see the evidence of the more popular ones in the names of steel pens (nibs) sold for those styles. From my own collection I can find Spencerian, Zanerian, Palmer, Natural Slant, Modified Slant, Vertical Writing, Business Writing, and Modern Writing.

Most of these were from the last quarter or so of the 19th-century with some extending into the 20th. (Palmer is still taught in places) But in the early years of the 19th-century writing masters advertised their own styles and classes, sometimes publishing their own books which you purchased along with your tuition to their traveling writing school. They'd come into town for a period of weeks, set up classes, collect the money, sell the books, then move on. Most were based on their own version of copperplate or clerk hands, and they were advertised as a way for girls and boys to get a leg up in life and possibly get a clerk or office job rather than toil in a factory. Or for girls to be able to write neatly and legibly as a part of their social responsibilities.

So, the answer to your question is, I doubt anyone knows about all of the various cursive styles in use, especially in the last two centuries. But it's a fun study.
Check out my steel pen history blog
https://thesteelpen.com/

Offline garyn

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
Tough call.

I would lean towards Palmer, et.al.  But that is because I use and like that hand, and enjoy writing with it to relax.

But a cursive italic would be more easily read by others.  Even for me, reading a print/italic hand is easier and faster than most cursive/script hands.

Can I say BOTH.
Gary

Offline Catannea

  • Freshman Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Keith & Amanda Adams
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 10:15:14 AM »
I would always vote for italic cursive, & I think the Getty/Dubay programme is good. I have known of Montessori schools that teach italic, but it was a long time ago in a different country.
 
Italic allows you to start with monoline (pencil) single letters, work toward adding "joins", and then at a slighly later time, add an edged pen for magical results.

Very highly recommended.

Offline Rednaxela

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Karma: 29
    • View Profile
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 12:49:28 PM »
Do you want to teach her muscular movement writing? In other words, is writing technique important to you? Or is your question only about letter forms?
-- Alexander --

Offline Sally Ellington

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2017, 12:26:41 PM »
I taught all my children the Italic cursive with the Getty Dubay materials. I found them to be simple to use. I think most people will find their own style of writing no matter which method they first learn. I know I did! One of my girls has a hard time reading other forms of cursive because they look different than the Italic form of cursive, so you might want to keep that in mind.

Offline garyn

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Print, Cursive Italic, American Cursive, Palmer, Spencerian, or....?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 01:22:42 AM »
To me, printing to me is a mandatory writing skill. 

Following on that is any hand that is similar to printing, which includes cursive italic.

But after that, should be American Cursive (or similar), so she can read the stuff that has been written in the past and present.
In preparing to do a seminar on "fix your handwriting" for the SF Pen Show, I discovered that what I learned in grade school was not Palmer (as I had thought), but D'Neilian, which is similar to American Cursive.  IMHO, there is too much stuff written in script/American Cursive and similar to ignore it.
Gary