Author Topic: Thin envelopes...  (Read 6963 times)

Offline JanisTX

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Thin envelopes...
« on: June 02, 2014, 04:01:35 PM »
I designed some invitations for a "Sip and See" for a friend of my daughter.  I got the blank card stock & envelopes in a kit at Office Max.  I addressed all of the invitations in Copperplate, using Noodler's Ink.  (The baby is a boy, so I was using a medium blue ink.)  Before I got started addressing, I realized that I only had a couple of "extra" envelopes in the kit, so if I messed up, I was going to have invitations with no envelopes.  I ordered some envelopes at envelopes.com as back-ups.  I ended up not using the substitute envelopes, as I had enough in the kit & didn't mess up as many as I thought I might.  This weekend, I decided to use one of the replacement envelopes for a thank you note that I had written.  The ink feathered like crazy!  You could apply no pressure on the nib or you'd get a puddle of ink!  I tried spraying the envelopes first with fixative and then with Aqua Net hair spray.  I changed ink to some Winsor & Newton that I had on hand & while it was better (less feathering), I still was fighting puddles.  I also changed nibs (several times!) and never could get anything to work right.  I ended up finally addressing the envelope in Italic, using a blue marker.  :-[  I ordered some Micro Glaze, but don't have it yet.  Does anyone have any suggestions about what else I could try??

Offline JanisTX

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 05:14:38 PM »
I forgot to identify the type of envelope I ordered.  They were 60 lb. White w/Peel & Press envelopes.  I wonder if I had ordered a heavier weight of paper if I'd have the same problem??  I ordered what I did because it seemed to be kind of a "middle" weight, not the heaviest but not the thinnest. 

Offline AndyT

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 07:02:09 PM »
Well, paper weight doesn't relate to feathering problems necessarily.  There are some very nice vintage airmail envelopes around which behave impeccably and are light as a feather.

As for how to deal with it, the first thing I'd try would be iron gall ink, but you might prefer to get a bottle of Noodler's X-Feather.  The second thing would be gum sandarac.  If that didn't cure it, I'd be sorely tempted to stick a label on, and would make a mental note to avoid those envelopes in future.

Offline JanisTX

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2014, 10:42:41 AM »
Thank you, Andy!  I am going to try each of your suggestions & I'll report back if anything has any effect on the problem!  I also ordered some pounce & am going to give it a whirl!

Offline AmyNeub

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2014, 11:42:31 AM »
I have never had luck with office supply envelopes. Even though they say 60lb, I always think they put something in them to not work with calligraphy.

Also, maybe post a photo of your envelopes, so we can help.

Online Erica McPhee

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2014, 12:39:24 PM »
Well that is a bummer! I ordered some colored ones from them earlier this year and they took the Doc Martin's Bleedproof white like a dream - but it may be because it was that kind of ink. Did you try gouache? That might not feather as much.

Also, you could try spraying each envelope with aquanet hairspray. Just a fine layer. That has worked for me in the past. Or, you can make your own sizing with plain gelatin. I have a book of tips somewhere that has instructions for it. I'll try to find it.
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Offline JanisTX

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2014, 05:49:55 PM »
@ Erica:  I saw a previous post from you about Aquanet hair spray & so I tried that.  I also tried a fixative that a professional calligrapher told me to use when I was addressing my daughter's wedding invitations. - After they would dry, I would stack them alphabetically & the ink would sluff off on the back of the envelope above the envelope in the stack.  I kept having to erase & erase, but I had so many invitations, I HAD to stack them.  I'd bought some nibs on eBay from a lady & so I contacted her & she told be about the fixative.  It smells TERRIBLE, but it worked, just as it was supposed to!  I sprayed these envelopes with fixative prior to applying ink, once I saw how much they were feathering and puddling.  It helped a little, teeny bit, but not enough to make the finished product successful. 

I've never anything but ink from the bottle (well, in the beginning I tried several calligraphy pens, but never found any that I liked the "thicks & thins" of, so I switched to an oblique holder and nibs & never looked back!).  I've been afraid to try the gouache, as I don't know how.  I know that there are videos on the Internet, so I guess I'm going to give it a whirl & see how I do!  I also think that I have a new book that the author gives a tutorial on gouache in...  I'll give that a try & will report back!  I'll also post a picture of an envelope with ink, as pitiful as it will be...!

Offline Linda Y.

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2014, 06:22:23 PM »
Hi Janis,
If you haven't seen Erica's tutorial on "How to Mix Gouache," you should give it a try :)

http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=217.0

Once you try it, you'd probably ask yourself why you didn't do it sooner. The color combinations are endless!

Good luck & please keep us posted!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 06:24:35 PM by Linda Y. »

Offline JanisTX

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2014, 11:12:44 AM »
Oh, thank you, Linda!!  I have not seen that tutorial!  That's exactly what I need!  I appreciate you!

Offline Faeleia

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2014, 12:49:05 AM »
Hmm feathering. Hate that! I wonder if Calli ink only takes to good papers. It seeps through and feathers through every paper I tried. I think I need to go up to like 160gsm or something. Sad because I can't practise with it, and I got 2 bottles!

Offline AndyT

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 05:49:11 AM »
I think I need to go up to like 160gsm or something.

That may or may not work, because there's no direct correlation between paper weight and resistance to feathering.  It's sizing, filling and calendering which make the difference, but paper manufacturers don't gives details of that sort of thing, probably because they think nobody's geeky enough to be interested.  There's nothing to be done about the calender, but using pounce or hairspray is effectively doing your own sizing.

Knowing what you're going to get with envelopes is a problem, unless you stick to reliable brands and that generally means paying a surprisingly hefty premium.  There's always the option of making your own ...

Online Erica McPhee

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2014, 10:52:30 PM »
I'm sorry to hear that about the aquanet!  :( It must have changed the way its made in the past 10 years.  :(  I will check again for that sizing recipe.
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Offline patweecia

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2014, 10:15:41 PM »
Hmm feathering. Hate that! I wonder if Calli ink only takes to good papers. It seeps through and feathers through every paper I tried. I think I need to go up to like 160gsm or something. Sad because I can't practise with it, and I got 2 bottles!

faeleia, where do you get quality envelopes here in sg?
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Offline Faeleia

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2014, 04:44:02 AM »
Hmm feathering. Hate that! I wonder if Calli ink only takes to good papers. It seeps through and feathers through every paper I tried. I think I need to go up to like 160gsm or something. Sad because I can't practise with it, and I got 2 bottles!

faeleia, where do you get quality envelopes here in sg?


er.. I haven't. :P I suspect you have to go to bookstores like Popular and pick out individual envelopes. I just went yesterday and 10 envelopes are about $1.50. That's pretty pricey in my opinion if you need to mass send though. :/ I haven't tried any to see if they bleed or feather either.

Offline lyndsaywrightdesign

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Re: Thin envelopes...
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 01:07:29 AM »
How did the gouache work?
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