Author Topic: roundhand diagram  (Read 421 times)

Offline Ken Fraser

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roundhand diagram
« on: January 29, 2024, 07:23:21 AM »
This diagram, comprising all of the English Roundhand minuscules,  is probably familiar to many on this forum. I was fascinated by it when I first came across it some time ago. I have no idea who devised it. As every example I found was at a slightly different angle I re-drew it at 55 degrees. If this has already appeared on this forum, please remove this version.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 06:09:11 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline BrightStar

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2024, 04:54:42 PM »
That's a lovely-made diagram Ken. Would you know why 55° was chosen to be the standard? Just wondering if there is some aesthetic reason that particular slope was decided upon because I was just reading a comment posted by @supxor in another thread where he chose 40°:

"I decided, too, after Bill [Lilly] and I measured his degree of slant, that I wanted mine to be to his: 40 degrees. I was interested the fact that the norm for slant at the Zanerian College was 50 degrees. I prefer the severity of his current degree slant."

I've also seen exemplars where Madarasz used 45°.

What is the advantage/disadvantage in using a different slant?

Offline JanisTX

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2024, 11:18:47 PM »
That’s lovely, Ken!  I write at a 55 degree slant. That’s just what I learned!  I find other slants to be appealing. But, I love the 55 degree slant!

Janis

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2024, 03:44:07 AM »
Many years ago I self-learned English Roundhand from "Copperplate Calligraphy" by Dick Jackson and "The Universal Penman" by George Bickham. As a slope of 55 degrees is used throughout both of these bools, I assumed that after experimentation this was decided as the ideal angle to produce the most beautiful form of this lettering. I think that it's worth noting that the writing master George Shelley wrote Roundhand in 1709 at an angle of 62 degrees, It's significant that this was never adopted as the normal slope and by the time of The Universal Penman, 34 years later,  a writing slope of 55 degrees had become the normal, acceptable practice.. Of all scripts English Roundhand is my favourite and, as a traditionalist, I have never seen any point in deviating from this ideal. Of course, there are no Copperplate police out there, and any deviation is entirely up to the individual. Having said that, I have still to see any English Roundhand which benefits significantly from being written at a different angle. I know that there are attractive versions of this style, but in my opinion if the writing angle is too different, it should be labelled as a variation to avoid confusion.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2024, 04:17:46 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline JanisTX

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2024, 09:02:31 AM »
I feel exactly the same!  I have Dick Jackson’s book. - It’s one that I learned Copperplate (English Roundhand”) + Eleanor Winters’ book.  Thank goodness that we were lucky enough to have talented letteres who published guides for us!!

Janis

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2024, 03:01:28 PM »
I like a strong slant as well. I typically work at a 55 but Madarasz's 45 is my favorite.  ;D
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Offline BrightStar

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2024, 03:34:57 PM »
I've never tried to write at any other slant than 55°, but my current guidesheets need replaced and I just wondered if changing the slant was worth it. Would my lettering look better? I guess the only way to find out is to try. :)

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: roundhand diagram
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2024, 10:30:58 AM »
I've never tried to write at any other slant than 55°, but my current guidesheets need replaced and I just wondered if changing the slant was worth it. Would my lettering look better? I guess the only way to find out is to try. :)
My diagram consists of all the English Roundhand minuscules at 55 degrees slope..Your writing is in the American Engrossers or Engravers script which is different. To the best of my knowledge, neither Bill Lilly or Louis Madarasz wrote in 18th century English Roundhand.
There is no reason why you shouldn't create your own diagram in your chosen script and at your chosen slope angle!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2024, 05:35:21 PM by Ken Fraser »