| (https://theflourishforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthesixapp.com%2Fsmk%2FCopperplateLessons%2Fstructure-i.gif&hash=e9fd612adbdee1fe9e51a8b292a007a7) | The first group of letters we will be working are based on the ‘i’ stroke i.e. the stroke that makes up the letter ‘i’. The ‘i’ stroke starts at the waist line and goes down to the base line. The stroke is started at full shade (i.e. the full thickness of the letter) and drawn at this thickness down ⅔ rds of the way down. As the illustration shows, pressure is released in the last third while simultaneously moving the pen to the right. This causes the right tine of the nib to keep drawing a straight line down while the left tine closes down making an arc as the tines come together at the base line. This is where you stop. Pick up the pen off the page and put it back down to start the hairline stroke that will connect to the following letter if there is one. The picking up of the pen ensures that the bottom of the shade comes to a point as well as avoids pulling excess ink into the hairline. |
| (https://theflourishforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthesixapp.com%2Fsmk%2FCopperplateLessons%2Fjoins%2Ftill.jpg&hash=3e5d5bbe60a98ea969448a08be3fbdd1) | The standard join is made when the hairline exiting at the baseline joins the following letter at mid-height between the base and waist lines. This is the simplest join. Care should be taken to make the join as seamless as possible. Leaving a very small gap (as in the first hairline before the ‘t’) helps to avoid ink from the following shaded stroke bleeding into the hairline. This is quite acceptable although the gap in this example is a bit too far. The hairline should be nearly in line with the slant lines at mid-height. This ensures that the join with the following letter is seamless. |
| (https://theflourishforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthesixapp.com%2Fsmk%2FCopperplateLessons%2Fjoins%2Fwit.jpg&hash=4b25928fba82daa1ba4fcc98a15955ad) | The second type of join in Group-1 is from letters that end at the waist line. These letters (‘w’ and ‘b’) end with a blob at the top of the final stroke. This blob is drawn about ⅓ of the way down from the waist line and a looping connector is drawn to the following letter. The bottom of the loop is about halfway between the waist and base lines allowing a join to the following stroke a little below the waist line. This join is slightly steeper than the ones starting at the base line but the transition can still be made smooth by drawing the hairline loop in such a ways that it matches the slant of the letters at the place where it joins the following stroke. |
Hopefully this works
@ash0kgiri
Guidelines can easily become a crutch if one relies on them too much I think.
@ash0kgiri
Guidelines can easily become a crutch if one relies on them too much I think.
I need to then work towards getting rid of the crutches myself before its too late.
Thanks,
Ashok
BTW - do you know the story about Lupfer when he joined the Zanerian College of Penmanship? The story goes that he showed such poor results after a few weeks of study that Zaner called him in his office and offered to refund his fees if he wanted to quit. Zaner did not think Lupfer had the required skill and control to be any good at penmanship. Needless to say, Lupfer refused, got to work and became one of the best penman of his time. He eventually rose to become the Principal at the Zanerian college.
So I started calligraphy a couple of months ago (though with limited practice). There are a few smudges but it would be good to get some feedback
@baodingball
...
I will be looking forward to a reworking of the same exercise. You don't need to post the whole page - just the assigned words and one word of your choice will do.
- Salman
@baodingball
...
You are ready to move on to lesson 2 but do keep the above in mind when practicing. Also, do mix up the letters from this lesson with the next one when practicing/playing.
- Salman
Ok I'm still plugging away at my practice. I'm enjoying it, which is the main thing and I'm in no hurry, I'm holding the story about Knupfer in mind. I'm learning all the time: I've found the right posture for me and also that obliques work really well, despite being cacky handed (a leftie). Here's today's practice, just to record my, ahem, 'progress' - I've followed some exercises from the Elenor Winters book just to mix it up a bit, hope that's ok
D'you know, when I was practising today I was really struggling to get the rounded part, I thought it was me but that makes a lot of sense now. I'll stick to the tutorial I think!
...
Also interesting what you are saying about eleanor winters having more rounded bottoms on her copperplate as that's the exemplar i have been following up til now!
Here's what I have so far for lesson 1. First row with watered down Noodler's Black; second with walnut. For some reason the writing look better with the walnut ...
Thanks for your reply. Yes, well, those question marks are where I thought the letters looked good (better than others anyway) but wasn't really sure. Now you made that clear to me.
I'll post my latest worksheet - is there any progress or not? And a question: how long should I be practicing at such large scale? X-height on that pad I am writing on is about 7.5 mm (which gives me a total of 1.5 cm ascender height :o ). It looks huge to me... And to my hand, of course. Although I understand now the theory behind it.
i - Start with a hairline at the base line and go up to the middle of the x-height or slightly above - this is the entry hairline. Now place the pen at the waist line and apply pressure to the nib to spread the tines and pull down towards the base line. The stroke should be placed such that it meets the entry hairline halfway down the stroke. Gradually release the pressure on the nib two-thirds of the way down while moving the pen to the right bringing the stroke to a point on the base line directly below the right side of the stroke. This will cause the left side of the stroke to have a curved shape. Now lift the pen for a beat, put it back down and draw the hairline back up to the middle of the x-height, this is the exit hairline.
The dot is placed directly above the ‘i’, halfway between the waistline and the the 1st Ascender line. It is the same thickness at the letter - no more. You can go back and make the top of the starting stroke ‘square’ now. In time, you will learn to square the tops directly at the start of the stroke but there is no need to spend time on it at this time.
It is worth your while to practice this stroke until you can do it without thinking. The best way to do that is to use Mr. Geoff Ford’s method of practising in groups of 5. Here is how you do it:
Write the letter 5 times. Now stop and look at each letter you have drawn and place a tick mark against ones that are good. Now pick the best one and try to replicate or improve on it 5 more times. Repeat.
This process not only take the boredom out of the practice, it helps sharpen the eye in the process. Once you can see what a good letter is, making it well is just a short distance behind.
So when do you know when you have it? When you can consistently make 3-4 out good ones in a group of 5.
Hi Salman - I am so grateful for your advice! I wanted you to know I am still practicing these forms. I think I may be having trouble when I lift up my pen, and then try to reconnect the lines - but I am working on it... Any additional commentary from you would be most appreciated.
Has anyone told you yet that you are an angel?
@SMK I was away for a few days, but I'm back at the desk now. I've been trying to work on the slants and where my hairlines meet the shades. Work in progress, but I'll keep at it. Here's the latest:
Hi All,I have this problem too. Its just practise and more practise that gets it consistent. Just have to pause, spread the tines to the width you want then start the downstroke keeping same pressure. It helps to do this.... before you start the downstroke, draw a small horizontal line to the width you like, from left to right. Keep nib at right side and apply pressure till the left tine moves to cover that line you drew, and maintaining that pressure do the down stroke.
- my shade widths are pretty inconsistent, especially I notice my "i" is consistently thiner than my "t" and "l".
I realised in copperplate, there is lot of hiding of lines. What I do for the connections (still a cheat and probably not the right way ;) )
- I have a hard time connecting the hairline and the shade... like in the 4th "till" those are some pretty big gaps in the "ill" and also I have bleeding issues like in the third "till" when I do get a bit too close (possibly this part of the issue is that in the 3rd word that shade is really thick). Are there any tricks to connecting the hairline and shade?
This just takes practise to release the pressure of the spread tines consistently till the end. TO get a feel of the pressure what I did was draw the letter with a pencil at about 8 mm height. I draw the double lines to get what the shade should be like. Then use the nib to fill it in with the swell. Making sure the tines follow the pencil marks. Makes sense ? Works best with a nib not dipped in ink, so you can see the Tine movement.
- my tappering of my shades is not smooth a lot of the time.. it's like really thick and then bam it's thin like in the very first "t" on second line - I feel like this could also be related to how hard I'm pushing on the shade.. sometimes the nib feels like it springs closed as soon as I ease a little bit.
Do we do the drills in lesson #1 every day until we are satisfied with our own improvement before going on to the next lesson? Or do we do lesson #1 today, then tomorrow repeat lesson #1 and add lesson #2, and so on?
Um... somewhat shamefaced about not practising more (or even at all lately), so thought I'd give Master Salman's lessons a try. Today was first day. Forget about anything I thought I knew. Start from the beginning.
Anyway, I have a question for Salman (or anyone else who may want to pick this up). What is the learning path here? What I mean is, do we do the drills in lesson #1 every day until we are satisfied with our own improvement before going on to the next lesson? Or do we do lesson #1 today, then tomorrow repeat lesson #1 and add lesson #2, and so on?
I hope that makes some kind of sense. I guess I am really asking how long - in a general kind of way - should I stick to a single lesson.
... Don't stop the connector at half height. extend it a bit more with a slight flick, so that the end does not have a small spot of wet ink.
hey chetwyn! is that just normal printer paper? definitely got to change it, it's impossible for me to write on that stuff.
Just an idea from a fellow newbie: You might consider writing larger at first - like x-height of 3/8in or 1/2 in. For me this was super helpful at being able to write a consistent shade width all the way down the letter. After a couple of weeks practice at that size, I was able to move back to 1/4in again and am doing fine with that now.
If you're interested in writing larger, you can get guidelines for that here: http://www.iampeth.com/pdf/vitolo-engrossers-script-guide-sheets (print these in landscape)... of course there's other guidelines you can fine if you search this forum.
Good luck!
.
@jtandy - welcome to the lessons. Can you kindly upload your work as images so we can see it directly in the browser without having to download a pdf?
Regards,
Salman
Salman, my ultimate respect to you and your willingness to moderate this tutorial and give very kind and helpful feedback. I just shared this on the introduction page:
"So as I have explored the site I have begun to realize that I feel like I got on the wrong ski lift. Remember the first time you went skiing and the fear you had that you might get on the wrong lift that takes you to the very top and there are only the black diamond slopes to get down? In my innocence I thought that all "copperplate" was alike :o After visiting Salman's tutorials I quickly realized how wrong I was. Man what beautiful and precise work he does! The problem is, my presbyopia (old eyes) makes those very rigid rules hard to complete, i.e. lifting pen after entry and before exit strokes. The easy flowing technique that I see in Erica's lessons suits this newbie much better. I believe she calls it "casual copperplate". Much respect to Salman and the guidance his gives! Maybe someday I give that style a go again, but off to do my "casual" worksheets"
I likely wont be posting on this thread again, but realize I haven't given up! In my complete newness to calligraphy, I realize the more "casual copperplate" is more suiting to me now. Thanks again for your dedication and passion!
Jim
@jeanwilson and @SMK
I must remember, my surgery residency for ENT was 6 years, and even then, I have continued to learn and master that skill over the subsequent 20 years!
@flummoxed - I mentioned the video for a demonstration of the pen lift at the bottom of the stroke.
You were drawing the shaded stroke correctly, the roundness came from the exit hairline going out a bit too far to the right. As for the tapering off at the end of the shaded stroke, move your pen slightly to the right as you release pressure, this will keep the right side of the shade straight while the left side will taper in a curve to meet at a point by the time you get to the baseline. The point you touch at the base line can be a little to the right of the right side of the shade - but only a little.
- Salman
Thanks for your patience Salman, I'll try today and post the results.
@Jennifer M
- The straight strokes have a slight curve to them. This might be due to the speed your write at but I can't be sure. The curve is more noticeable in the longer strokes but it is there in the 'i' stroke too.
- You start to taper off the shaded stroke too early. Again, this might be due to the speed your write at. The taper should only start in the last 1/3rd of the x-height before reaching the base line.
- Some of your shaded strokes taper off before reaching the base line. This creates an inconsistency in the overall texture of your script. Once again, it seems to me like you are writing a bit too quickly for full control.
I will give it a go! Thank you, Salman.
I will give it a go! Thank you, Salman.
So, would you say the first two are okay, excepting the entry stroke?
@Foxmorepatty
Definitely getting there Patty. The group of letters at the end of the second last line is very nicely done (except the 'b' :-)
It seems to me that you have a tendency to fall back to the round turns at the base line when writing words but the letters are done well. Keep at it - you are on the right track.
- Salman
ps. it will help if you can turn the picture so it shows right side up :-)
Hi Patty,
Yes, like you I'm finding it hard to stop curving the bottom, but tonight I made a conscious effort to lift my pen at the end of the shade, as suggested by Salman and I found that nearing the end of my practice I was doing automatically. I still don't have it right, but I think the pen lift had improved it. I did try to post it but I'm having problems with re-sizing the image.
I am a complete beginner with calligraphy, I am really enjoying learning copperplate, it's a beautiful script. I will hang in there.
Looks like you are doing great! I started in September and used Eleanor Winters book a lot myself. For some reason, my hand resist getting this as down. I pray that this time it is ok. But, I will keep working on it if not. It is a wonderful opportunity to have Salman as a tutor.
I take my pic with my iPhone, then email it to myself, where I have the chance to resize it. I pin the paper up on my quilting design wall so I can get a straight on-ish image. Where in the UK are you? My husband went to publlic school in Darbyshire.
Have you discovered https://www.scribblers.co.uk? Seems to be a supplier of choice for calligraphy items in UK. I ordered some watercolors from them that are hard to find here. They were fast! Best to you!
Regards
Diane
@Foxmorepatty
This is indeed an improvement. The next step is to work on consistency and making all the bottom turns the same. For reference, check out the Copperplate Challenge thread in this forum.
Your individual letters have a better structure than when used in words. As a Calligrapher, one must resist the urge to 'write' and begin to see the space as a series of strokes and counters (open space). This will make your script more consistent (albeit at the cost of good spelling mistakes :-)
Also, keep an eye on that slant. In 'jilt' on the last line, the slant of all three letters is different. This is sometimes caused by not moving the paper when you are out of your 'zone' - make sure you slide your paper after every couple of inches so you are always writing in the most comfortable position.
Also, it helps me see things much more clearly when you use black ink. It is also much less forgiving than coloured inks :-)
- Salman
@FoxmorepattyThanks, Salman, Just taking a sec to say hi. I have been busy working on the invitations and have not taken time to upload my Group practice. It is my warm up, along with some majuscules before I start in.
You have the letter forms and the turns under control Patty. Great job. The next step is slant. See how in 'built' on the last line the 'lt' are standing up a bit compared to the slant guide and in 'wit' the 'w' is inconsistent while the 't' slants a bit too much. It shouldn't take you long to get the slant uniform. The trick is to move the paper so yo are always in the sweet spot and see the writing are from the same angle.
Also, try to rotate the paper so the slant guides are more or less in line with the slit in your nib. This will keep the slant pretty steady.
- Salman
@Foxmorepatty
Hi Patty - sorry for the delay in feedback.
Your writing has a nice flow to it. Writing all those addresses paid off :-)
The image is too small for me to see much detail but your exit hairlines are off. The exit hairline should curve up and match the slant of the slant guide by mid x-height. this way it will merge seamlessly with the following stroke if there is one. If continuing the exit hairline all the way to the waist line, you do so at the same slant as the slant guide and optionally curve just a tiny bit to the left in the last 1/3rd.
The shaded stroke of the 'j' should taper off to a hairline by the 1st descender line. The rest of the stroke below the 1st descender is a hairline going down and back up. The shape of your counter is quite nice (except for the 'big one').
Let me see another attempt at these letters.
- Salman
Hi Salman,
Thank you for your comments. I am using a Leonardt Principal nib I think thats a pretty flexible nib? I think the problem is me and not the nib, lol. I think I put more pressure on myself when doing these exercise because I know they're being critiqued as opposed to other projects I work on. I will try to work on that.
Thanks Salman! crawl before sprinting I guess.
@Jenafer
Ah - in that case you might be drawing your strokes with the wrist rather than the arm. Keep an eye out for that - it will get you into trouble in most cases.
S.
Hello Salman!
I am back! The wedding is over! Wow, what a lot of work. Anyway, here is a new attempt at the Group 1 words. I sure hope it is acceptable this time. I used a particularly nice pen holder and nib :)
While working on cleaning my studio, I unburied a note I wrote to you a while back, and shall now address and post it into the mail. I have looked in the same spot for it about 100 times, and finally, there it was, along with a few others.
Anyway, here you go! Keeping my fingers crossed.
Hello Salman,
Here is a fresh take on Group 2 words. Things I am struggling with: getting a clean closure (squared off) on the strokes requiring a squared off bottom, spacing of m and sometimes n, spacing of p and h. I feel I am executing the inverted i and the squiggle paperclip shape fairly well. Also need work on some of the connectors. Looking forward to your input. Thanks, Salman and have a great day!
Patty