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Messages - jeanwilson

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31
I remembered a conversation with Bob Hurford at IAMPETH - and the angular caps are often associated with several styles that have the name Spencerian Ladies Hand. Bob noted that the ladies hand is a bit more compressed that the original Spencerian and it is a tiny bit more upright. His opinion was that the Ladies Hand was a variation that would allow a person to simply get more words onto the page without sacrificing any of the beauty of Spencerian.

If you Google *Spencerian Ladies Hand* you can find examples - and looking at a full page of it - does reveal a very nice texture. The original Spencerian can be gorgeous in a full page letter - but it also looks better if there are nice margins. With the Ladies Hand - you don't need wide margins. Maybe someone can come up with an example of each one - to illustrate the difference.

32
I, too, prefer some fluidity - especially when it comes to caps with Spencerian.
Ideally, you learn all of them and then you learn which ones to use in a particular situation.
On your signature, the caps in your name need to blend with each other.
For me JMW - J has so many lovely ways to start - the MW needs to partner up - in a pleasing way.

On envelopes - you can use the more ornate versions on the name
and then give the postal workers a break and use less ornate caps on the street
then you may want to continue with a simple style or you can go crazy on the city/state
- because they won't read/need the city/state - if the ZIP is correct.

On a letter - you might decide how ornate vs simple based on where the caps pop up -
and the overall layout.

On a broadside (a name used for a piece of calligraphic artwork) the caps might be huge focal points.
Maybe some are focal points and others are more subtle.

The collecting of caps is one of the most enjoyable parts of Spencerian. Also, one of the most enjoyable parts of going to IAMPETH where you see others doing things like *The Killer O* - or flipping through books in the archive - making notes of caps you've never seen before.

Bottom line - start with a very simple set - for envelopes - then branch out into variations.

33
It's fine to have the paper straight in front of her.
The earlier a person learns cursive - the better.
When she is older, she can start turning the paper to put her hand in the optimal position.
Learning with the paper straight will not do any long term damage.

34
Tools & Supplies / Re: The sponge!
« on: June 04, 2022, 09:16:59 AM »
I did not watch the video - so I don't know if Bill talks about the sponge.
This is what I observed - back in the day - at IAMPETH.
I remember having one for a while - but I switched to brush loading.

The sponge was step two - after dipping the nib into a jar of water to clean it.
Instead of stopping to wipe it with a cloth - you moved to the sponge - which would absorb any excess water that might be on the underside of the nib.
You could also draw the nib across the sponge and wipe off any ink buildup that might have accumulated on the top of the nib.

Or any easier way to say all that - the sponge is a hands-free, moist wiper.

I think some people just used the sponge as the only step - but, to me, there would be too much ink accumulating on the sponge - and a mess to clean up.

I also saw people use the sponge with gouache. If you loaded the nib, but the gouache would not flow - you dabbed it on the sponge to add a little water to thin the gouache and get it flowing. This is not a beginner move. Working with gouache and keeping it the right consistency has a bit of learning curve to it. But, I can see how it would be efficient to use up that current load of gouache - then you know it's time to stop and clean the nib and thin the gouache properly.

35
One way to keep the ink fresh and not be bothered with evaporation is to keep the cap and the rim of the ink bottle pristine.
Clean both thoroughly (when you first open the bottle) and then refrain from any kind of tipping or jostling that would allow ink to get on the cap or edge. If that happens - clean everything thoroughly.
Use a small piece of plastic wrap (double thickness) to cover the ink before you put the cap on.
This will prevent any kind of crustiness from forming on the edge.
Do not use the kind of wrap that has the sticky dots - although that stuff is excellent for covering palettes.

When you need ink - carefully open the bottle and stir it very carefully.
Do not let the stir stick touch the edge of the ink bottle.
Never dip a pen into the bottle.
Pipettes work to transfer small amounts of ink into something else - but, I prefer using a regular plastic drinking straw.
Dip the straw into the ink - place your finger over the top of the straw - which will *hold* the ink in the straw
Remove the straw - without touching the edge of the ink bottle
and release the ink into whatever you are using.
If you are afraid the straw will drip - have something to catch the drip - like  paper towel or old linen cloth on your desk.
I don't bother with cleaning the straw - so I just snip off the half inch (or inch) that is inky - and discard it.
If I am going to be writing for a while - I rinse the straw and use it multiple times - and then snip it when I am done for the day.

Dinky dips are a popular item for transferring ink into a smaller container  - but I do not use dinky dips - because I do not dip.
I only brush load gouache - and with inks - I like to put them in those small trays with very shallow round *thumbprint-like* depressions.
I can load the ink by bringing the nib down - in a very flat orientation and the ink will *jump* into the nib.
It doesn't really *jump* - because you are dipping it - but you don't dip it in far enough to get any ink on the top.

Yes - you have to load the nib quite often - but the trade off is that you get better hairlines and do not have to stop and clean the nib as often.

When I am through - I discard whatever ink is left - it is always a very small amount - and it seems like a decent tradeoff - to fussing about with the bottle of ink - and crusts - and evaporating. The ink is always fresh.

36
Spencerian Script / Re: Handwriting fluency tips - feedback?
« on: June 01, 2022, 11:21:28 AM »
Thank you to @AnasaziWrites for adding the part about comparing your personal befores and afters -
Such good advice.

37
Spencerian Script / Re: Handwriting fluency tips - feedback?
« on: June 01, 2022, 08:26:46 AM »
Your comparison to music is excellent. One of my students was very stuck on practicing one letter at a time and one word at a time and I could not convince her to move on to sentences and to plan on doing an actual finished piece of art. She was so resistant - until one day she came to class and reported that she had told her husband how she was locked in a debate with me. He had been a concert violinist with the Chicago Symphony - and he said he agreed with me - he said it compared to a musician who was stuck on scales and finger exercises - and would never even try playing a piece. Voila. She moved on.

You said - "While I'm not at the level I'd like to be (is anyone?"
Once again - if we look to people who actually master any skill - (unless they are a savant) they all agree that they got to the (virtual) top, one step at a time - and that virtual staircase or ladder goes on forever. You don't stay at the *top* if you do not continue to practice. So, it is a waste of time to fret over which step you are on. If you can't appreciate where you are - you are robbing yourself of the joy of the journey. (Or as some teachers say - you are whiners. Peter Thornton even had a t-shirt - beautifully lettered - that said, "No whining." He wore it to workshops to remind people that whining was pointless. When people would say, "I can't (insert anything that one struggles with)." He would politely say - "...yet." to remind people that they were perfectly capable of figuring things out - and whining was a waste of time. There is nothing about moving a pen across paper that is out of reach for anyone. Sincere seekers of putting lines onto paper will get there -- if they care to find the path that works for them.

Letting one book or one teacher tell you that their path is *The One That Works* - is a huge mistake. Few books teach adults how to obliterate their bad habits.

My favorite way to convince people that self-criticism is a waste of time - is to require them to mail something to someone. It never fails - they get feedback - lots of oohs and ahhh. Another favorite story from my teaching years was a woman who had made a cute hand lettered card to go with a present at a shower. She was so excited (and encouraged) by all the oohing and ahhhing by the other guests. She was quick to tell me that her work was nothing like mine -- but that's the point -- I wasn't at the party - so, by default, she was the very best calligrapher in the room. We rarely run into people who are ahead of us on the learning curve - unless we are at a workshop, a guild meeting, or on a forum like this. It's pretty easy to be the person with the best penmanship in any setting.

And even if I show up at a party with a world class calligrapher - the two of us would agree on *who's best.* But if my work has more bells and whistles and glitter - there will be people who think mine is *better* - to their eyes. A great design can trump the skill level of the lettering. It's not uncommon to see people who have good skills - but they are oblivious to composition and design.

So, please start enjoying your progress - and put your new penmanship to use.
1
You will never obliterate your natural penmanship that has been etching itself in to your muscle memory for decades. So - don't expect that to happen.
2
Impatience is usually the avenue that your natural penmanship uses to sneak in. If you simply slow down - and be mindful - your Spencerian can remain in charge.
3
Feel free to toss out another word instead of *natural* to describe that stuff that we are stuck with - because of the length of time we used it. I don't like to use negative words - because it is a part of us - and I'm vigilant about refraining from self- criticism.
4
Rotate through all the different ways of writing with each practice session.
Warm up with some repetitive words.
Refrain from practicing the lower case letters one-at-a-time.
Caps often need some practice on their own - because there are so many cool variations.
Include some pangrams in your practice - to insure that you are covering every letter.
Chose some motivational quotes - to keep yourself from lapsing into whining.
Your wife's suggestion is one of my all time favorites: Comparison is the thief of joy.
Do some spontaneous writing of your thoughts of the moment - but they have to be positive thoughts - affirmations.

****
Have you ever done cross-drills? I highly recommend them.

Do you practice your Spencerian with a pencil?

Have you ever considered different proportions? Long ascenders and descenders take so much focus. Allowing yourself some easier ones can be a real boost to rhythm.

Are you opposed to morphing your penmanship into something that allows for some variation off what you see in the books? It is a radical idea for some people - but, the penmanship police will not come after you if you tweak things.

The number one item I tweak with people is to allow for a natural slant. Sheila Waters, and others, have agreed with me - that when people have their own natural slant - it's just fine to let them use that slant - to get all the other basics down. Once a person has all the basics - they can adjust the slant.
This is most evident in italics - no-slant italics can be lovely - and for some people - no slant is a much better *first step.*

I'll go back to the other 5 items from the other email -- eventually.
There was a lot of good stuff to ponder in your answers to the questions.


38
Spencerian Script / Re: Handwriting fluency tips - feedback?
« on: May 31, 2022, 08:11:34 AM »
There are about 5 different things to talk about from your most recent posts.
Before I launch into them -
please tell us if you are writing spontaneous thoughts - on your practice pages - just letting the text flow spontaneously from your thoughts of the moment.
Or - are you writing text - where you have to remember specific words.

Or do you do some of both - if so - what do you notice (if anything) about the difference between the two?
Is there anything like *target fixation* happening?

Also - confirm what your goal is?
As I recall, you want to adopt Spencerian for *everyday* penmanship.

If that is correct - are you still going back and forth - using your regular penmanship when you are not doing your timed practice
 - or do you use Spencerian when you are adding an item to the grocery list, for example?
Can you guess where this line of question is headed?

39
Spencerian Script / Re: Handwriting fluency tips - feedback?
« on: May 29, 2022, 06:48:10 AM »
Your list looks like all the things I would recommend.
Here are two more things that you might ponder.

How wide is your paper and are you familiar with the *sweet spot* right in front of your line of vision?
For me - if I try to write on a page that is 8 1/2 inches wide - by the time I am over to the right margin, it's too far away to maintain consistency.
I prefer narrower paper - or I pause and shift the paper left and right to keep my writing in the sweet spot.
I imagine if I wrote in one style for several hours a day - day after day - eventually - I would be able to maintain consistency beyond the sweet spot.

The pausing to shift the paper doesn't feel like an interruption. I actually like pauses even on narrower paper. Sentences often come out as a series of phrases and it feels natural to pause between phrases. Or if I come to a long word - I will pause and focus on the spelling. The number one word that causes me to stop and spell it out is - remember. It's not that long or hard to spell - but, I've written - rember - so.many.times. - that it is a red flag word.

And this is something that took me years to figure out. If I am actually going to mail something to someone - I write a rough draft on notebook paper. I've wasted too much stationery and cringed at the way a few lines came out on a greeting card. I'd rather write it out once to see how it looks and sounds - and then the final is pleasing to my eye.

40
Slip sheet
is the term for paper that is put between items to prevent the ink from *offsetting*

The slip sheets that were used on engraved invitations were to prevent offsetting - and were meant to be discarded.
But - people started including them - and then it became a tradition to have them -
even when the invitations were not engraved.
Thermography - which was a less expensive imitation of engraving layered an embossing powder on the ink
and then the invitations were exposed to heat - which *melted* the powder -
so there was never going to be any offsetting of the ink.
Slip sheets between thermography is silly.

Letterpress printers might have to use slip sheets.
And sadly -- there are some disasters where the *ink* in digital printing does not stick to the paper.
One of my worst disasters ever - was using Crane's paper - that was specifically for digital printing
on an insert - inside a very expensive holiday card - also by Crane's.
When the cards went through the cancelling machines at the PO - the pressure at the top of the envelop
caused the ink on the insert to offset --
the client was not upset with me -- but - it made me very hesitant to trust any papers.

41
I would not use tissue paper - it could stick to the ink.
Cut rectangles of waxed paper - it won't stick
or
if you have glassine paper - that is ideal.
The USPS has glassine envelopes that they put your stamps in when you buy them at the post office.
I always save them and use them for *release paper* - that's the term used in bookbinding
when you are gluing and pressing - and want to make sure that any stray bits of glue will not stick to the wrong thing.

The inner bags of non-sugar cereal (like Cheerios) are also wonderful for *release paper*

42
Joe Vitolo does make a distinction between copperplate and engrossers script.
It's his personal perspective - so, might be different from how other people see it.
I am aware that there are other opinions that differ.

https://www.iampeth.com/lesson/script-in-the-copperplate-style-engrossers-script

43
I know I have downloaded Joe's book on a desktop Mac  -
It would be worth contacting him to figure out a way to get it.
He's very committed to helping people.
Over the weekend would probably be a good time to contact him -
as he is still working.

44
Joe Vitolo's eBook is excellent.
It is free - for Mac users - and if you are PC - all the material is still available for free -
If you are PC and can't find that option, let me know and I'll figure it out.

The advantage of Joe's book is that he has videos of everything - all for free.

http://zanerian.com

45
Open Flourish | General Discussion / Re: Writing on gold leaf
« on: February 20, 2022, 06:59:03 AM »
Yes - Peter, as well as many others, did not allow students to take pictures of their work.
Many instructors put the copyright mark on their handouts and did not want people to share their handouts and exemplars with non-paying scribes.

Peter is the only one I know who put a little Y-for YES - with a circle around it on some of his exemplars -
and told people he would be happy for them to share those exemplars.
He was incredibly generous with so much of his knowledge.

I did not intend for him to be any kind of example of a master craftsman who is un-approachable.
There is an etiquette to interacting with professionals - whether you are a beginner or an advanced student.

As Sheila Waters says - she is still learning - you never get to a point where you know everything there is to know.






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