Author Topic: Beginner needing help  (Read 3111 times)

Offline ernie85017

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Beginner needing help
« on: July 10, 2014, 02:36:56 PM »
If this is the wrong place to post this, please let me know.

I am working the classes in the "Nirvana" section.  What a blessing.

butů. When I dip and start out, and there is a lot of ink in the pen, my downstrokes come out overly inky.  A letter or 2 later and they are perfect, then it runs out.  Dipping is a pain.  Why doesn't someone invent a cartridge calligraphy pen that works as well as a dip pen?  Dumb question?

That is not my question, though.  Am I over-dipping or is this a normal occurrence with ink?  I am using walnut ink as my first dip ink, and the Hiro nib. 

I can see why taking a live class could be helpful for asking questions.

Thanks

Offline garyn

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2014, 05:18:30 PM »
Did you clean the nib first.  The manufacturing oils and stuff will mess up the first stroke after a dip.
If you can get out a few letters, I think you probably clean the nib.

If you are flexing the nib to make WIDE lines, then you WILL run out of ink fast.

As long as you think about it, and letting it bug you, then dipping will be in your head and you will be bugged by it.  Just write and when you see it beginning to get light, or when you develop a feel for just before it will get light, you dip.  I don't think about it anymore.  It sort of just becomes part of the process.

Someone does have a dip pen with a feed system.  But from what I've read, he is not reliable to deliver the pen.  Also keeping the nib wet with ink will cause the nib to rust.
If you are doing italic, there are a lot of cartridge pens. 
But right now, I don't know of any reasonably priced ones that will flex like the Hiro nib.

hang in there, and gud luk
Gary

Offline Heebs

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2014, 06:32:23 PM »
They make fountain pens that have beautiful flex and will work for copperplate but they will run you several hundreds I believe but you wont get the same options as with dip.

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2014, 08:08:12 PM »
Hi!
I'm glad the tutorials are helpful! If preparing your nib doesn't help, it sounds like you may have one of the bad Hiro nibs. They had a bad batch just recently and they would pool up the ink and blob off.

The only thing I found that helped was dipping the nib into some pine-sol cleaner VERY briefly. It worked but still not like it should.

If you have any other nibs (not Hiros from the same order), try one and see if you still have the problem.
Warm Regards,
Erica
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Offline JanisTX

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2014, 08:16:38 PM »
They make fountain pens that have beautiful flex and will work for copperplate but they will run you several hundreds I believe but you wont get the same options as with dip.

Hi, Heebs!  Can you give me the name or brand of such a fountain pen?  I'd be interested in one!  Can you replace the nib if it wears out?

Offline AndyT

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2014, 08:30:05 PM »
The Ackerman Pump Pen is a fountain pen which takes a dip nib.  It's a nice idea, but reports are mixed.

I'm not convinced that any fountain pen with a durable nib is going to match a dip pen for calligraphy, or even come particularly close.  By durable I mean made from a corrosion resistant metal and with tipping material welded onto the tines.  Too many metallurgical compromises, and grinding a true needlepoint without compromising the weld is highly problematic.  Every once in a blue moon you might come across a vintage pen which does give a pretty good hairline and flexes readily, but snap is usually lacking; conversely modern pens like the Namiki Falcon have some snap but are firm semi-flexes and require quite a bit of pressure.  In either case, springing the nib is a real danger, and that is going to be a costly mistake to remedy.

Schin has two excellent videos comparing the standard Falcon with one modified by John Mottishaw: that's an interesting discussion, but at the end of the second one she does some writing with a Leonardt Principal, and that really does settle the argument.  Well worth taking the time to watch:

Part 1
Part 2

Offline ErikH

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2014, 03:03:29 AM »
This used to be my big source of frustration as well (my girlfriend called me Blobsie during some lessons... :p), and while it's a lot better now, I still get the occasional blob.

I found that it helps to gently touch the nib to the top of the ink pot after dipping, just on the inside of where the cap goes on, to get some of the excess ink out.
When it happens with Windsor & Newton's calligraphy ink, I know it's time to close the pot and give it another shake - I assume it gets a little too runny after a while.

You might want to try a few different inks, but most of all: hang in there. Eventually you will get the hang of it!

Offline Faeleia

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2014, 03:46:59 AM »
Why doesn't someone invent a cartridge calligraphy pen that works as well as a dip pen?  Dumb question?


That would be your fountain pen. Some FPs can be dipped, but generally fountain pens are meant to last. Hence their price. Dip pen nibs are meant to be worn out. The material for FP nibs are of a better material, but less flex (because flexing puts pressure and wears out the nib). When you have a cartridge, you can't afford to clog your pen, so thinner inks are used. Dip pens can accept all sorts of nonsense, because cleaning is easy. People don't recommend dipping a FP because of clogging.

Your ink could be too watery too.

You'll have to either use less thick strokes, or dip often. Also, don't use your nib on the paper immediately after dipping, get rid of the excess by making them on a rough paper first, so you get the proper ink flow when beginning actual work.

Offline JanisTX

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2014, 07:34:42 AM »
Andy, thank you for the information & the links!  Very helpful!!

Offline patweecia

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2014, 01:01:10 PM »
I used to have the same problem. But i think with practice, you'll, more or less, have an idea of how many strokes you can make before re-dipping the nib into the ink.  But yeah, make sure your nibs are clean and free of oil first before using them :)
patricia
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Offline elsa.d

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2014, 07:16:57 PM »
I would also reccomend trying different nibs and inks. I personally cannot use the very flexible nibs without blobbing all over the place. I have not tried walnut ink but I understand it's quite thin...more viscous inks generally work better for me.

Offline ernie_tan

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Re: Beginner needing help
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 02:35:08 AM »
This used to be my big source of frustration as well (my girlfriend called me Blobsie during some lessons... :p), and while it's a lot better now, I still get the occasional blob.

I found that it helps to gently touch the nib to the top of the ink pot after dipping, just on the inside of where the cap goes on, to get some of the excess ink out.
When it happens with Windsor & Newton's calligraphy ink, I know it's time to close the pot and give it another shake - I assume it gets a little too runny after a while.

You might want to try a few different inks, but most of all: hang in there. Eventually you will get the hang of it!

I agree, a gentle touch on the top of the pot is helpful!
Ernie Tan
IG: ernietan.calligraphy | Practice makes progress.