Flourish Forum
General Categories => Tools & Supplies => Topic started by: Sheehan1 on August 12, 2015, 05:53:15 AM
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I am just a new member but trying very hard to learn the roundhand writing and accumulating some dip nibs I enjoy. I make my own pen holders and brass nib holders and enjoy everyone aspect of this wonderful experience. I am starting to get a small knowledge of the nibs I like. My favourites nibs that I have purchased are as follows (not in any order but the Gillott 604, Spencarian No. 5 and Esterbrook 128 feel so good in my hand. Well here is my list:
Blanzy Dept Cementee 2552
Baignol Henry 2730
Esterbrook 128
Gillott `70 Unwarranted
Spencarian No. 5
Zebra G
Nikko G. Brause 54 EF
Gilbert Blancy Plum Tremplin `60
Blanzy Gorille
Mitchell 138
Carl Kuhn Wien `08
Leonart Principle
Blanzy Le Seduisante
Carl Kuhn 530 and
Sommerville 757 Lincoln
I am trying to refine my herd of nib down to my very best but it is so hard.
What do others thinks of my present herd?
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I like the versatility of the Zebra G - I feel like it works well on a lot of surfaces and with a lot of inks. It's a consistent nib.
My other two go-tos are not on your list: Brause Steno and Brause 66ef. Not to add to your list ;)
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From the nibs you mentioned you like you should keep an eye out for the Spencerian 1 and 2. I normally don't like the G nibs (mostly because I've been spoiled by vintage nibs) but the new Titanium Zebra G is really great.
You have a nice variety of nibs, many people like the Mitchell 138 as well but it's a bit temperamental.
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
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I like the versatility of the Zebra G - I feel like it works well on a lot of surfaces and with a lot of inks. It's a consistent nib.
My other two go-tos are not on your list: Brause Steno and Brause 66ef. Not to add to your list ;)
Sorry I also have the Brause Steno and 66EF and they are also in my preferred list. Dont know how I missed the Brause 66ef. It is so small and gives such great line variation
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Will do schin. I find the names are also very confusing. When you browse through a seller with multiple needs you get used to the look of the nib rather than the name and I also have a great deal of trouble trying to read the name on the stem of the nib. I have a magnifying glass but still find it difficult with some nibs. I think my 3 favourites would be the Gillott 604, the Spencarian No. 5 and the Esterbrook 128
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Here are some pictures of some of the nibs. I didnt include what I thought were the obvious. My apologies for picture quality.
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Last set of nibs as the file was too large for previous post.
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Here are some pictures of some of the nibs. I didnt include what I thought were the obvious. My apologies for picture quality.
Oooooh those are some pretty good nibs!!!
I have some of those, but haven't tried em yet.
The Blanzy and Baignol are popular ones.
The Blanzy plume and gorilla are expensive and hilarious.. I think they're pretty good nibs too.. but I only have one of em so I'm not gonna use it.
The Mitchell 138 is based off a famous nib.. with three holes like that. It should be pretty good.
Dude the Kuhn 108 is like my new holy grail, I can't believe you have it. I tried it once at Iampeth, got soooo addicted!!
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Here are some pictures of some of the nibs. I didnt include what I thought were the obvious. My apologies for picture quality.
Oooooh those are some pretty good nibs!!!
I have some of those, but haven't tried em yet.
The Blanzy and Baignol are popular ones.
The Blanzy plume and gorilla are expensive and hilarious.. I think they're pretty good nibs too.. but I only have one of em so I'm not gonna use it.
The Mitchell 138 is based off a famous nib.. with three holes like that. It should be pretty good.
Dude the Kuhn 108 is like my new holy grail, I can't believe you have it. I tried it once at Iampeth, got soooo addicted!!
Hi Schin
Can you tell me what the Mitchell 138 was based on? I went back and had a try and it is a nice nib with plenty of flex. The only problem is that it does not produce very fine hair lines. I have another interest pen which is very similar in shape with 3 holes. It is a very large nib called a Cobalta. I just had a try and it is fairly similar to the Mitchell 138 and probably has more flex and quite smooth
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Here are some pictures of some of the nibs. I didnt include what I thought were the obvious. My apologies for picture quality.
Oooooh those are some pretty good nibs!!!
I have some of those, but haven't tried em yet.
The Blanzy and Baignol are popular ones.
The Blanzy plume and gorilla are expensive and hilarious.. I think they're pretty good nibs too.. but I only have one of em so I'm not gonna use it.
The Mitchell 138 is based off a famous nib.. with three holes like that. It should be pretty good.
Dude the Kuhn 108 is like my new holy grail, I can't believe you have it. I tried it once at Iampeth, got soooo addicted!!
Hi Schin
I am quite happy to give you the Kuhn 108 if it is your holy grail. I am very old and just learning this wonderful skill and I am sure you will appreciate it more than me. I have plenty in my herd to keep me going for my limited time. So I am prepared to post it to you for no charge.
Regards
Laurie
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You're so kind to offer Laurie, but please keep it and try it.. I have found more Kuhns and have restocked my supply!
Anasaziwrites reminded me what the Mitchell 138 was based on, the Perry & Co 104. It is a similar looking spear nib with three holes but very flexible and wonderful, and a favorite of Nick D'Aquanno, an amazing penman. The Mitchell is an inferior copy. I wish I had extras of the Perry to send you, but I only have one and am keeping it for display only.
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You're so kind to offer Laurie, but please keep it and try it.. I have found more Kuhns and have restocked my supply!
Anasaziwrites reminded me what the Mitchell 138 was based on, the Perry & Co 104. It is a similar looking spear nib with three holes but very flexible and wonderful, and a favorite of Nick D'Aquanno, an amazing penman. The Mitchell is an inferior copy. I wish I had extras of the Perry to send you, but I only have one and am keeping it for display only.
So it sounds like the Perry 104 is as rare as the Gillott 604. I have a 604 and I am too scared to use it in case I damage it. I never thought when I got into learning copperplate that I would end up having a collection but that is the way it turned out. It all started when I was on the FP Geeks forum and trying to experience some of the old flexy fountain pen nibs like the Marie Todd pens sometimes had. A member of that forum who is very wise told me I could waste a lot of money buying old fountain pens in the search for a flexy nib and so he suggested I buy some flexy dip nibs and a holder and get the experience that way. So that is how I got started. Funny the dip nib experience has put my fountain pen experience in the background and I havent used any of my nice fountain pens for some time. I keep getting drawn to the dip nibs. For me it is the line variation that I think makes the handwriting beautiful. So I am always looking for nibs that produce those fine hairlines and nice thick strokes under pressure. I just want to get reasonably proficient at copperplate and building up a nice small collection of nice nibs.
I have purchased quiet a few that dont seem to give me the line variation that I want but I suppose it is a matter of just buying different ones and experimenting. I found a very good article on the Iampeth website which goes through the various good nibs for copperplate. I think the author was a person named Herford. Might be wrong there. I am lucky that I have a friend who sells nibs on Ebay and he recommends various nibs to me that dont seem to get any mention in the reviews. Some are very obscure. Some have been great and others not so great. But the search is probably part of the fascination
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Funny the dip nib experience has put my fountain pen experience in the background ...
Yes, I know that feeling. I have some nice vintage fountain pens (including a few Mabie Todds), but the sticking point is that only one of them comes close to being fine enough for me now. (Well, the other thing is that I've become used to an oblique holder). Finding soft nibs isn't so much of a problem, even on a budget, but true needlepoints aren't common. I do still like springy stubbish fountain pen nibs for general writing without calligraphic intent though.
Incidentally, I thought the attached Gillott advertisement might interest you, as it prescribes pens for specific purposes and users. I note with amusement that my favourite 303s are intended "for ladies' use".
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Hi Andy. Yes I too like the stubby springy fountain pen nibs. I have a Pelikan 400 with a stub nib and it is just so smooth and beautiful to write with. I also like the effect you get with an italic nib.
I havent tried the Gillott 303 but have one on order. It gets plenty of mentions. Might be designed for a lady but I tend to father the smaller nibs as I find them better at producing the fine lines and variation I like. I love the Brause 66EF and I imagine that was regarded as a lady's nib. I have larger Blanzy Poure nib called "Le Seduisante 750" which I also like very much. Well named. Think it is french for the seducer.
That Gillott poster is very interesting. Is that the actual Gillott factory at the bottom of the poster. If it is well it is a huge place to produce nibs. It looks like a place where you would build tractors or aeroplanes and not nibs.
It is funny how your look at things change. I am sorry I didnt get interested in this a bit younger as I am getting athritis in the hands and a bit shaky. I started off using dip pens at school and now at 68 I am learning them again. I recall at school my nib pen was used more as a javelin then a writing implement. We used to play a game of throwing the pen and trying to get it to stick into a desk a few metres away. All good fun till I embedded by javelin into someones leg. That stopped that fun. Remember all the school desk had a little hole in the right hand corner with an ink well and boxes of nibs at the front
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The Gillott factory was famously huge, although maybe not quite so vast as Josiah Mason's where the Perry pens were produced and many others besides, including the Spencerians. Birmingham had a near monopoly on the world steel pen trade in the 19th century, and the production figures were staggering ... beyond comprehension really. Considering that every single nib went through more than a dozen different operations the need for all that space becomes apparent, and there are many contemporary engravings of the serried ranks of fly presses and what have you which filled the galleries of the mills. If this sort of thing interests you, may I recommend the steel pen articles in this thread (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=873.0)?
Ah, school desks! Ours were set up in perfectly straight rows and had a cast iron frame, a flip-down seat about 8" wide, a sloping writing surface with storage space underneath, a pen groove across the back and, as you say, an inkwell which usually contained a marble. No dip pens, but we were issued with the dreadful Platignum school fountain pens for a while {which had limited projectile potential) until the ballpoint became ubiquitous. :)
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Hi Andy. Quite amazing the size of that place but as you say if the market was there and there were so many processes you can probably understand. And I suppose that we didnt have the modern productions lines. I find it also amazing how many nibs they must have produced. There must be so many sitting out there somewhere. Wish I could find a stash of the 604s. I did read an article I found when googling which sets out the production process from the start to the finish and also gives a history of the different manufacturers. I will try and find the link. Thanks for that interesting info.
BTW As far as my school day experiences I remember spearing myself in the wrist and I remember I had a black ink stain under the skin for many years. The ink stain in the skin lasted for about 30 years and eventually I couldnt see it. Must have been good ink they used back then. Probably India ink. It must have been quite safe as i got no infection from it either.
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What was the purpose of the marble in the inkwell?
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Good question. Safe keeping, as far as I can remember. There was quite a strong marbles culture at my school.
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Hi Schin. I have just received a few more nibs from a purchase from Ebay. I was blown away by some of them. I will post a photo in the next few days but they are
1. Esterbrook 357 (My rating 10/10)
Esterbrook drafting (hard to identify small blue nib) 9.5/10)
Carl Kuhn N. 109 (9.5/10)
John Mitchell 078 Commercial (9.5/10)
No. 138 EF (9.5/10)
Spencarian No. 2 Counting House (9.5/10)
EC & F No. 319 Eva Extra (9.5/10)
Perry & Co. 104 EF (9.5/10)
Perry & Co. No. 120 EF (10/10)
Locati No 0738 Milano (9/10)
Some of these nibs are very small and some are so fine and flexy. Others are quite large but also very flexy with the tines really opening up. Hopefully I can post a shot tomorrow
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Where did find a Perry 104? Was looking for them recently, nothing doing though. Got the Princesse nibs. They are fun!
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Hi David
Yes the Plume Princess is a very nice nib for me. I am glad you enjoyed it. I have catalogued my nibs and re used them and rated them out of 10 so that I can keep track of the ones I like. I gave the Plume Princess a 9/10. I have a few 9.5/10 and about 3 10/10. I am finding the Esterbrooks such a great nib. Really fine hairlines and great flex. Particularly the No. 357 Vintage. I just cant believe how good it is. Yes I have two Perry & Co nibs which I also just love. The Perry 104Ef and the 120 EF.
There is an Ebay seller on Australian Ebay who just has such a great selection. He has an auction every couple of weeks . His Ebay name is Wintersun_. I will let you know when he announces his next auction. I have got very friendly with him. He is a great guy and a guru of dip nibs. He also adds a few complimentary nibs with purchases. Quiet a remarkable person. He goes into hibernation every now and then with some Monks in some way off temple and he loves drawing with dip nibs. I am not sure where he gets his collection but he has some many different nibs and when he rates them highly he is always right IMO.
I will post a picture in the next few days of my 10/10 nibs I have from him.
This experience is just so much better than fountain pens. I am so glad I took the advice from Jon Santos on the FP Geeks forum and got into dip nibs. I think my wife thinks she has lost me. I cant seem to get away from practising my copperplate and searching for new nibs.
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Hey Laurie,
Thanks for the info, and I love what you are doing with the whole cataloguing idea. Something I should do as memory starts to fail me! I have had a short 'conversation' with your Australian supplier - I think, I'll check at lunchtime when I ahve access again - but if it's the same person they acution one nib at a time, is that correct?
Jon Santos is a real stand-up guy and very pleasant to know and talk with.
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Hi David
Yes the Ebay guy goes under the seller name of wintersodafeld. His name is Kirk. He is so helpful and a guru of nibs. Yes he does sell in single lots which makes it a bit more expensive but you do save on postage and he will combine all single items and post them all for $1.90. As I say he throws in some complimentary nibs.
Yes I found the catalogueing to be very helpful. I was just losing track and found it hard to identify the nibs. Even with a magnifying glass it is very hard to work out which one you are after. So I just listed them under the manufacturer with their number and ID and then I gave them a score out of ten. I then just add to the list when I get another nib. I have them in little plastic viles and bags with the manufacturer's name stuck on and put them all in a plastic compartment container (bit like a fish hook box) I put a few packets of dessicant in the box and find that it is so much easier.
Yes Jon is pretty forthright in expressing his opinion but I like you have great respect for his knowledge and he is always the first to post a reply when you want some advice.
BTW some of the nibs I got off Kirk were very deceiving. Some were very large and some narrow and 3 round holes. (not a very good description but I will post some pictures later) I thought these nibs would be a bit like a nail and not having any variation but I was quiet wrong. One is a John Mitchell 138 which is just gorgeous
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Ah, yes, same guy. I asked if he would sell the nibs in lots rather singly, and he refused. Seems a lot of hassle to bid on every single nib, so I turned my attention elsewhere. He seemed like a nice guy and all, but as an overseas buyer I cannot justify buying one nib at a time.
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Sounds like a good collection... could you post a photo? I don't remember nib names very well, but I do know what they look like!
Hi Schin. I have just received a few more nibs from a purchase from Ebay. I was blown away by some of them. I will post a photo in the next few days but they are
1. Esterbrook 357 (My rating 10/10)
Esterbrook drafting (hard to identify small blue nib) 9.5/10)
Carl Kuhn N. 109 (9.5/10)
John Mitchell 078 Commercial (9.5/10)
No. 138 EF (9.5/10)
Spencarian No. 2 Counting House (9.5/10)
EC & F No. 319 Eva Extra (9.5/10)
Perry & Co. 104 EF (9.5/10)
Perry & Co. No. 120 EF (10/10)
Locati No 0738 Milano (9/10)
Some of these nibs are very small and some are so fine and flexy. Others are quite large but also very flexy with the tines really opening up. Hopefully I can post a shot tomorrow
Those sound amazing! Can't wait to see pics!
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Here are some pictures of the nibs. Please excuse quality
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Very nice collection, they all seem to be very good quality nibs. Great choice!
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Laurie,
I just tipped out the small box in my stationery drawer and this is what it contains:
12x Baignol et Farjon Henry Superieure No. 2730
12x Blanzy-Conté-Gilbert Plume Princesse No.730
1x Esterbrook Chancellor Pen No. 239
1x Esterbrook Easy Writer No. 130
12x Esterbrook Jackson Stub No. 442
5x Esterbrook Oval Point No.788
1x Esterbrook Radio Pen No. 942
1x Esterbrook Radio Pen No. 988
1x Government of Canada No. 40
2x Hiro Leonardt No. 41
2x Hunt extra fine No.22
2x Hunt Imperial No. 101
2x Hunt School round pointed No. 56
1x Hunt Silverine X-515
3x Joseph Gillott's extra fine No.303
1x Kimball-Storer Business No. 23
1x LW Holley & Son Arrow 011
1x LW Holley & Son Ideal No. 12
1x LW Holley & Son Silverine 013
1x LW Holley & Son Silverine 014
1x Universal 838
1x William Mitchell's Red Ink Pen
10x Zebra G
That's a total of 75 nibs across 23 types!
Although I know I bought some of these (The Hunts, Hiro, Gillott, 442s, #2730, Princesse, and Zebra) I have no idea where the others came from, or what they are like. Bit of a mystery really. <scratches head>
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I will leave to others with better experience but I do recognise a few that I like. the Baignol Henry Sup. 2730, Blanzy Plume Princesse No. 730, Hunt 101. Gillott 303 are nibs that I have tried that I think are good. Oh yes the Zebra G which is so good for beginners. I dont know the other and will leave to the other more experienced members of this forum.
I just gave my Perry 120 EF a bit of breaking in and found it to be such a great nib. It is a bit deceiving. It is such a big broad nib that deceived me. When I inked it up and used it, it produces such fine up strokes and flexes under pressure to produce such great broad down strokes. It is one of my favourites and I would love to know where to get some more.
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I thought I could recognize what makes a good nib by the shape, but I'm constantly surprised by how the most unassuming shaped nibs can turn out to be awesome!
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I just gave my Perry 120 EF a bit of breaking in and found it to be such a great nib. It is a bit deceiving. It is such a big broad nib that deceived me. When I inked it up and used it, it produces such fine up strokes and flexes under pressure to produce such great broad down strokes. It is one of my favourites and I would love to know where to get some more.
I don't understand. Kallipos.de states that the Perry 120EF has little flexibility. All very confusing.
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I wasnt aware of that David. But I am using it at the moment and it is very flexy. Fine hairlines on the upstroke and you can get nice wide lines on the downstroke.
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Hi David
Here is a writing sample of the Perry 120. Dont be too critical of my writing as I did it very quickly and without much regard to spacing etc. Just tried to show you the flex I get from this nib
Regards
Laurie
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Looks pretty flexible to me. According to the kallipos.de site there are a several minor variations, though it looks like the imprints rather than anything else. This potentially is a problem, inasmuch as how much credence can we give to a website that may or may not incorrectly describe the products? Mine will arrive in about 10 days. In testing them I will keep in mind the flexibility of the Gillott 303, by far my flexiest nib.
Your writing is nice! <hangs head in shame>
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Certainly not as flexy as the Gillott 303 but fairly flexy. Certainly not stiff and I wouldnt describe as no flex. I have an Esterbrook 357 which is the flexiest nib I have. It is a very small narrow blue nib. I like it but at items when I put too much pressure I get a blob of ink. I will learn how to avoid this.
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I just used one of my nibs and was amazed. It is a Blanzy Poure Tremplin 160. It is so good. Here is a sample of my writing with it (Please excuse the quality of the writing as i am still in my apprenticeship) The nib just satisfies my love of the fine upstrokes and the full downstrokes. Additionally it is so smooth. Not catching on the upstrokes which I am finding is very annoying on some nibs.
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I will leave to others with better experience but I do recognise a few that I like. the Baignol Henry Sup. 2730, Blanzy Plume Princesse No. 730, Hunt 101. Gillott 303 are nibs that I have tried that I think are good. Oh yes the Zebra G which is so good for beginners. I dont know the other and will leave to the other more experienced members of this forum.
I just gave my Perry 120 EF a bit of breaking in and found it to be such a great nib. It is a bit deceiving. It is such a big broad nib that deceived me. When I inked it up and used it, it produces such fine up strokes and flexes under pressure to produce such great broad down strokes. It is one of my favourites and I would love to know where to get some more.
I love the Perry 120. Very fine hairlines I would say medium flex. As to where to get more:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/UPDATE-A-dozen-Perry-Co-Elast-Pen-27-EF-Balance-S-Pen-120-EF-Indentpen2301EF-/321511597404?nav=SEARCH&varId=510392765864 (ftp://m.ebay.com/itm/UPDATE-A-dozen-Perry-Co-Elast-Pen-27-EF-Balance-S-Pen-120-EF-Indentpen2301EF-/321511597404?nav=SEARCH&varId=510392765864)
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That's my favoured seller!
I must admit I am in two minds about posting links to these things. It is already hard enough for the few of us over in this part of the world to find sources of nibs that also come with reasonable shipping costs. Exposing these sources to the community has meant that some have dried up almost instantly. I was unable to find any #2552s for example, even though they had been fairly plentiful a few weeks earlier.
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Hi David and others
I went back and retried the Sommerville Lincoln 757. It is a bit better than my original rating. It has lovely flex and it gives medium to fine hairlines. Have to concentrate on being liight on the upstrokes but other that a real lovely nib and holds plenty of ink
I would rate it probably 9/10 now
Here is a sample of its writing
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Hi David and others
I went back and retried the Sommerville Lincoln 757. It is a bit better than my original rating. It has lovely flex and it gives medium to fine hairlines. Have to concentrate on being liight on the upstrokes but other that a real lovely nib and holds plenty of ink
I would rate it probably 9/10 now
Thank you for referencing a very important point in searching for "good" or "best" nibs.
There is no best nib.
Some nibs are better for achieving a particular end or style of writing, on specific paper, using a particular ink or class of ink, for a particular person at a certain skill level at a point in time. Over time, just as you have found, I've found my rating of a nib has changed. The nib didn't change--I did. Perhaps what I was trying to do changed, my skill level changed, the other materials changed, and so on. A Zebra G may be a better nib for someone than a Principality, though the latter may cost ten times as much for other reasons and be considered a better nib.
I only mention this for a couple of reasons--for people with limited experience with the broad choice of nibs, don't go chasing after a nib just because someone says it's great, or the highest rank unless that person has wide and deep experience trying out these nibs and know what they are trying to do with them. Those nibs may be best for them, but not for you. By all means try out new nibs recommended highly by knowledgeable penman to see if they are right for you. And rank them for your own benefit, and, with caveats in place as to what you are using them for, for the benefit for others. I love threads like this that offer opinions as to nibs I have never tried. There are so many to try.
In the end though, don't get too hung up on what is the better or best nib. More practice will lead you to better results than a better nib.
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I'm one of those with little experience and I agree with AnasaziWrites. There are a lot of different nibs out there and they were designed with different uses in mind. Some are good for larger shaded writing, others for mono line and everything in between. Finding the right one for your uses is a big part of the fun, for me at least.
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I thought I could recognize what makes a good nib by the shape, but I'm constantly surprised by how the most unassuming shaped nibs can turn out to be awesome!
Just like people!
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I just tried the E.C.F. Eva Extra #319 and it is amazing!!! How do you like it?
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I have an 319 Eva Extra and I have given it 9/10 (my humble inexperienced rating) I catalogue all my nibs and give them a score out of ten so that I can keep track. I also have an Eva 323 which is like a finger and I have noted it as 9/10 also. Also I just acquired a Musselman Perfection. Oh my god!
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I loved the 319 Eva Extra! And oh, I am so sorry you are now in contact with the musselman perfection. RIP Sheehan1's wallet.
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Well, I don't know what possessed me but I just bought a gross of Velleda Cementee 2436EF nibs. At $30 that's about 21c a nib. I think I can live with that, and with any luck they will be similar to the Departmentale nibs.
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Hi David. I too will be interested how you find those nibs. You have to steal a musselman perfection.