What is the good time to learn Spencerian ?

[C_Yan]

Hello, I am new to dip pen and practicing Engrosser's Script for 6 months.  During the time I try Spencerian Script as well.  After a while, I find that if  I keep practicing Spencerian Script, I will only have very little time to work on Engrosser .  I regard Engrossser's Script as a foundation that I must handle well.  Am I right?  Should i  stop Spencerian until my Engrosser's skill is solid enough?  Or they are just two different styles, there is no harm to place more emphasis on  Spencerian ?

p.s It is my first post in Flourish Forum  Nice to be here~~

[Myles Ink Calligraphy]

First of all, welcome to the forum!
You are definitely correct that Engrosser's script is a foundational script that a penman (or a pen-woman) should handle. However, there is great importance that you keep in touch with the Spencerian hand. The Spencerian Script focuses on both beauty and practicality of the letter-form. Practising both of the script will help you understand in contrast the universal template of letter-forms, such as the line of universal beauty, and as well as the practicality of letter-forms. Also, Spencerian penmanship will definitely help you to improve your motor skills that is required for all calligraphic style, which will come in handy when mastering Engrosser's script.
In summary, I suggest you sample with Spencerian, just to understand the mechanics of the script and use the skills in Spencerian to further develop your Engrosser's script. And there shouldn't be any opposing harm if you place more emphasis on Spencerian.

[AndyT]

Hello C-Yan, and welcome to the forum.    I'm afraid what I'm about to say isn't what you want to hear, but there will be plenty of others saying the same thing.

Master one before going anywhere near the other.  "Master" means get to the stage where you can make the forms without thinking about it, and do it well.

The two scripts have superficial similarities to the casual observer, but they are fundamentally different at a structural level and it will cause no end of trouble if you start on Spencerian whilst still learning any form of copperplate.  The techniques involved, and even the choice of nib and the way the penholder is set up are disimilar too.  If you want to work on another hand concurrently Italic would be a decent candidate because the differences are obvious - in fact the same goes for pretty much anything except Spencerian.

Sorry about that. 

[RobertFontaine]

If you are left handed Spencerian and italic are so different it's like an entirely different language.  To get a nice stroke with an Italic nib I have to write sideways and down.   It's hard on the brain till you get comfortable with the flip.   It doesn't have any sort of negative impact on Spencerian that I can write with a fairly normal overhand or underhand approach except for the amount of time that I can spend on a single style.

I don't know how long it takes to develop your first script to a point where it is natural.   I'm not there yet.   I suspect that each additional script should become easier as fine motor control and understanding of how the pen/ink works with the paper develops.

I'm out of 303's at the moment, 10 more on order, so I've been practicing with G-nibs.   I am officially addicted to the 303 when it works and it teaches a really nice touch for the nib quickly.   

I strongly suspect that it doesn't really matter what you select as your first script so much as learning how to practice effectively and consistently, and spending enough time examining exemplars of the script to get a feel for the variations that you can play with.   

I think Engrosser's script is a bit unnatural in that it is designed for copperplate and touch-ups.   Spencerian being designed for handwriting; spencerian, business hand, ladies hand and then the period of silly embellishment gives a very large area for study if you get bored.   

If I had started with Copperplate I would probably have a similar bias for Engrosser's script .

Either way I find improving my penmanship a pleasant meditation.

[C_Yan]

@27addictionz , @AndyT , @RobertFontaine
Thanks for all the thoughtful advice

[tintenfuchs]

The best time to learn Spencerian is when you want to learn Spencerian.

[Lyric]

Hello C-Yan, and welcome to the forum.    I'm afraid what I'm about to say isn't what you want to hear, but there will be plenty of others saying the same thing.

Master one before going anywhere near the other.  "Master" means get to the stage where you can make the forms without thinking about it, and do it well.

The two scripts have superficial similarities to the casual observer, but they are fundamentally different at a structural level and it will cause no end of trouble if you start on Spencerian whilst still learning any form of copperplate.  The techniques involved, and even the choice of nib and the way the penholder is set up are disimilar too.  If you want to work on another hand concurrently Italic would be a decent candidate because the differences are obvious - in fact the same goes for pretty much anything except Spencerian.

Sorry about that. 

This is what I needed reinforced in my mind ('cause I wanna learn this and that and that over there too).  Thanks for this.  I have been working on Consistent Cursive and am chomping at the bit to get back to calligraphy practice.  This will help hold my lil horses.

Of course it also brings something else to mind.  When able perhaps I should start Spencerian versus picking back up copperplate.  Hmmmmmm??  Thankfully I do not have to decide today.