Quality control with Gillott 303s and 404s

[elsa.d]

I've only ever purchased 4 principals (each at a separate time) and 3 of the 4 were defective. I have given up on them. The one that was good was excellent, but they are too expensive to be taking risks on.

[andy277]

The Hunt 101 is my reliable go-to for this type of nib, and I have loads of those on-hand, always!

I've always liked the 101, but since its redesign I love it!

[Bianca M]

Andy, when was the 101 redesigned? 

[andy277]

I don't know exactly, but sometime over the last two or three years they made a slight change to the shape of the front of the nib (the tines).

[Brush My Fennec]

On the subject of Principles, I recently found some old pens I had bought a few years ago. I had 10 principles in a little bag and upon inspecting them through a loupe, no less than 4 of them were mis-slit. I tried them out nonetheless and as expected they were scratchy and useless and I threw them away. That's what, more than £9 I've just thrown away?

In contrast, I also had 10 Zebra G-pens in a bag: every single one of those fine and they even had the grinding on the top like vintage nibs sometimes do. No wonder people like G-pens! Also, I should mention that I bought some Walker's Fine Writers a few years ago as well, and there were duds amongst those as well.

Whether they're cheap(er) 303s or Principles, I think returning them and complaining to the retailer and manufacturer is only a good thing because the pen makers need to be stopped from ripping people off with shoddy products.  It's easy enough to say that a 303 is cheap, because it's only 73p or less that you've lost when it's a bad one, but over the years and thousands of people buying these nibs, the money lost by buyers to the really bad ones must add up.

Also, googling for Principles, I came across this thread on a forum:

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/237134-ef-303-cf-ef-principal/

Which has some microscope pictures of a principles tip and you can clearly see the lack of quality control.

I also noticed that one British retailer of calligraphy materials has a photograph of a mis-slit Principle on their website to illustrate the product.

[Bianca M]

Wow, what a photo!  I just looked through all of my principals, which isn't many anymore since I'm not really restocking them, and they all have slightly smaller right tines (this photo shows a significantly smaller left tine).  Just to compare, I looked at a dozen Hunt 22Bs and they look very even, although two look like the tines don't lay quite parallel to each other (one is slightly higher up than the other), and I know these will give me trouble. 

[Brush My Fennec]

Good news: I sent an e-mail to Wm. Mitchell expressing my concearns over quality and got a response. It turns out that the tooling for producing the Gillott 303 is being replaced, which should presumably produce less duds in future, and I was sent two new nibs from the new tooling to try out. These ones do not have the blued finish, because it hadn't been applied yet, but 303s will continue to be blued:



Here's something I wrote with one of the new nibs: the letters are 3mm tall and I used a straight penholder, higgins eternal ink, and Rymans Superior plain writing paper:

[AndyT]

That is good news: thanks for letting us know.

[Christo]

Great news... The modern 303 has become my favourite nib and I need to buy a big box of them !

[Tanvir Ahmed]

As for abandoning the hobby, Empty, although I have quite a few vintage nibs, I've happily used modern nibs only for quite a while, so there's no reason to think about leaving the hobby. You can still get beautiful results with modern nibs. Vintage nibs are definitely going up, with even previously relatively unpopular nibs like the Esterbrook 354s and 355s, which were going for about $6 a gross a few years back now going for $1 each. I guess people are seeing nibs being advertised for $20 and more apiece and figure that, even at several hundred dollars a gross, they'll still make a profit. But I wonder how many people really buy nibs at more than $5 each, let alone $30. One possible upside is that the higher the values go the more the modern manufacturers will realise that there is a good market for quality nibs.

A hobby built on vintage or out of production consumable cannot be sustained. 

I just started again in the calligraphy and finding the nibs are really bad.  I  briefly played with calligraphy (for few weeks) in 2009 and bought a gross of modern 303 and most of them seem OK.  At that time also purchased several dozen of EF Principal and every single of those nibs is perfect.  Now we read about extensive problems with EF Principals.  Just to complement that gross or 303, I bought another gross (144 nibs) about a month ago.  Out of those 144 nibs, only about 42 (yes forty two) nibs seemed OK.  The rest of 102 nibs looked like they were cut oblique, uneven tines and various other defects.  Even of those 42 nibs that appeared ok, none is as good as the 2009 batch and that is saying something because 2009 batch quality is not that great to start with.  The vendor I purchased from was more than accommodating but that is the situation with the nibs. 

During that brief 2009 foray into calligraphy I bought tons of vintage nibs.  I have more than enough supply of vintage nibs to last me couple of lifetimes (Spencerian 1, 356, 357, 358, Vintage Hunt 56, etc, etc waiting since 2009 to be used) at a use rate of couple of nibs a week and all of them are a pleasure to use.  Likely I will sell them or do a few giveaways here and there.  In addition to nibs I am left with, I used to have around 150 boxes of Esterbrook assorted Arts and drafting nibs which I have sold or gave away, save 5 boxes for myself. 

However I just don't like to use vintage nibs if that makes sense. 

Nikko and Zebra guys are producing nice nibs for their market at good price.  It is hard to know why 303 and EF Principal people are allowing defective items to enter the market.  Or why they cannot produce working items at the current price point because Nikko and Zebra are doing it.

Just like Empty Clouds, I feel like leaving the hobby or moving to the quills.  For me, it is not a matter of not having vintage nibs because I have lot of them.  It a matter of not having a reliable and constant supply of modern nibs.

Tanvir

[Janice N]

As pretty much a newbie to any kind of calligraphy - I'm still in the testing stage of finding which nibs to use, so I've ordered several types, but two of each to test. Yesterday I received two Gillott 303's that I had ordered and was really, really looking forward to... No amount of prepping has helped to get the ink down the tines and onto the paper in a smooth and helpful fashion. I tested two brands of sumi ink, and walnut. Not even thin walnut will flow.

Has anyone else found this, or do you have any suggestions? I was super excited for these, and while testing decided I adore how super flexy they are, but their refusal to 'start' and maintain any kind of ink flow with their super sharp points carving up the paper is endangering their poor little lives under the weight of my frustration.

I have two 404's, which are quickly becoming a favourite.

[Entropy]

I'll throw in my two cents: buy your nibs from JNB if you can (and are using modern nibs). They look at each nib (as far as I understand) before shipping them out so I've gotten very few bad ones from them ever and they've been sweethearts about replacing anything wonky. I believe their prices are adjusted to account for the ones they throw out but in the end I figured it was worth it to reduce the PITA (Pain in the Ass) factor.

Also, as a shameless self plug I have a large selection (and quantity) of vintage nibs in the nib boutique under Nik's nibs. While I recognize that many folks here want to stick with modern nibs because they know they'll always be around there's actually a number of vintage nibs I have tons of that are nice. Since acquiring my George Hughes Treasurer pens and Sisson & Parker Educational pens I've brought them to my classes and given a couple out to every member- so far the consensus has been almost unanimous that everyone prefers them over G nibs. If anyone is interested shoot me a PM or or message me in that thread. Tell me which nibs you've tried so far, what you're doing, and what you like. Regardless of whether you end up getting anything from me I can at least tell you a lot of other options (both modern and vintage, I've tried a lot of nibs now) that you can look for. 

[AnasaziWrites]

No amount of prepping has helped to get the ink down the tines and onto the paper in a smooth and helpful fashion. I tested two brands of sumi ink, and walnut. Not even thin walnut will flow.

Has anyone else found this, or do you have any suggestions?

What exactly is your prep work for the nibs?

[Janice N]

Well, for these it was...

Dawn and a soft toothbrush. More than once.
Toothpaste, very gently, more than once.
Windex, just once
Plain ol' spit, more than once.
The flame method, very briefly.

I tried a LOT of things. Nothing worked.

[AnasaziWrites]

Well, for these it was...

Dawn and a soft toothbrush. More than once.
Toothpaste, very gently, more than once.
Windex, just once
Plain ol' spit, more than once.
The flame method, very briefly.

I tried a LOT of things. Nothing worked.

Forget Dawn and other dishwashing soaps--too mild, not the right chemical
Toothpaste--varies with brand--skip it
Windex--useful for cleaning used nibs, if it contains ammonia--not so hot for prepping a new nib
 Spit--not a fan, particularly with modern nibs. Works okay on most vintage nibs
flame--tricky--easy to overdo it or under do it.

Try this--in a little cup big enough to hold a nib, pour some rubbing alcohol, enough to cover the nib, grasp the nib and put pressure on it to spread the tines a bit, so as to get the alcohol between them, dip a paper towel in the alcohol and rub it over all parts of the nib like you were trying to scrape off ink. Just soaking it in alcohol is not enough. Dry the nib with the paper towel not immersed in alcohol. I then often flame it about 1 second to burn off the alcohol, but that is not really necessary. If you do use flame, use a gas flame (I use the stove) not a candle or match--too much carbon. I've never had this method fail, with any nib.