Author Topic: Advice & Ideas Requested  (Read 6572 times)

Offline Scap

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 04:54:05 PM »
I think this is a supply and demand situation. As long as there are people out there paying the money you should sell them for the going rate. Donate the money you make beyond your investment to a worthy cause and maybe help some people in real need.

Offline ericp

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2016, 05:08:56 PM »
Using the wise words of Return of the Jedi......

Admiral Piett: Shall I sell them?

Darth Eric: No. Leave them to me. I will deal with them myself.

:)  ;D

Offline YokePenCo

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2016, 05:12:07 PM »
Wow, thanks for all the input and interesting to see different points of view. I like several of the ideas, but one thing REALLY stands out to me and was said by Evjo and really sums it all up for people new to Calligraphy. Vintage Nibs are a distraction! They are a distraction to learning. If you wanted to learn to play piano and just spent the majority of your time looking at piano models, instead of actually practicing, you would never improve!

The reality is a couple of nibs does no good, just as Melanie Jane said. If you just want the experience of writing with one, then pay the dumb eBay price for a single and get it over with.

Scap, I REALLY like your thought. Just sell in bulk and donate the extra profit to a worthwhile cause. That solves a lot of the issues.

I'm, still interested in other opinions :)
Christopher J. Yoke
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Offline Moya

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2016, 05:14:01 PM »
I wouldn't say it's not worth it to only use one - I have a very few precious vintage nibs, and it's been a joy to me to get to use them. The life of a nib isn't so short that you can't take pleasure in using something lovely.  (and I'm in Australia, where bulk vintage nibs aren't really an option; I do most of my work with modern nibs, particularly the LEFP).

I think I'm with Salman and Mike - it probably comes down to selling only to people you know, or maybe to people for whom people you know can vouch. I agree that will leave some people out in the cold, which is unfortunate - but if the alternative is to open it to resellers and collectors as opposed to calligraphers, maybe that's the best solution?

It's a tricky one. Good luck.

Offline randy2

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2016, 06:18:26 PM »
 I like the idea of someone who really has been working at their calligraphy to try these fantastic nibs . Maybe someone who has been on this forum for x amount of time or entries... a kind of proved sincerity and also desire to improve in this great art....
Truly  I like your heart in wanting to donate to people who love this art and give them a chance to experience what the Golden age was really like and not just someone who wants them or the profiteer.
I think that people who show up should be first. And, they are traceable by their participation in this society... either by a sponsor who can vouch for them or their activity on the myriad Internet forums, IG, blogs  etc. that they could give you along with there request....
I love the idea that everyone who is captivated with this art can say yea I got to try that nib before they're completely out of the realm of the average calligraphy enthusiastiast.  And there was this great pen maker who enabled this possibility.
Please don't just dump them persist in your initial desire. Best wishes to you Chris

Offline Brush My Fennec

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2016, 06:37:22 PM »
The idea of a network of 'trusted distributors' or having to have sponsors who vouch for you just for the privilege of handing your money over to the 'trusted distributors' sounds ripe for abuse by way of people making sure that only their friends and people they approve of being able to buy some of these dip pens, plus of course the question of who judges the judges and all that.

I want to see the ebay bubble surrounding vintage dip pens burst and establishing secretive networks to distribute dip pens would just be some  new way of keeping the pens out the hands of people who can use them.

I think that the dip pens should either be simply sold on the open market (I'd be most curious to see how much they'd all fetch if they were all to be auctioned as one big lot on ebay) and the money donated to some worthy cause or perhaps in sets of, let's say, 36 of each pen, and someone can buy one set per person per lifetime.

Vintage dip pens are good in themselves due to their high quality, but the profiteering and 'dream nibs' hyperbole and people paying $500+ for about 30 dip pens (I saw this happen on ebay a few days ago) is very bad and I hope it stops.  :(

I've seen cases where someone has bought a one gross (i.e 144) box of dip pens at a pretty good price (e.g $30) and then the person starts selling each dip pen individually for $1 or more: I've actually recognized the exact same box from comparing pictures.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 06:41:48 PM by Brush My Fennec »

Offline Moya

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2016, 07:02:59 PM »
The problem with selling a bulk lot and then donating the money is that the only people who will be able to bid for that are the ones with disposable income - or the ones for whom it is a profitable business investment, ie, resellers. I feel like selling them in bulk is the fastest way to get them back on the market at $30 apiece, except with someone else profiting.  Which is exactly the outcome you don't want.

Quote
I want to see the ebay bubble surrounding vintage dip pens burst and establishing secretive networks to distribute dip pens would just be some  new way of keeping the pens out the hands of people who can use them.

I kind of think the opposite - distributing dip pens among one's network, to people you know get good use from them amd won't resell them, is a way to 100% ensure the pens get to the hands of people who will use them.  The problem with it is, as you say, it's going to ensure that only the people within that network get a look-in.  It won't distribute them at large among the calligraphy world.  That's where it fails.

But is that a terrible thing? If Chris's friends benefit from Chris's willingness to sell nibs at a fair price, isn't that just ... how the world works?  "I got this thing at a great price because I know a guy" is hardly an unusual story. 

And I say this as someone who only knows Chris by name; we haven't had much personal interaction.  This is not coming from a place of "I want special treatment."  (In the interests of unflattering honesty - of course I'd be hoping to be part of that network somewhere down the line - six degrees of separation and all - but so would most of us who are posting in this thread, wouldn't we?)

Offline melanie jane

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2016, 07:13:55 PM »
I think it's also worth mentioning that not everyone who is selling these 'dream' nibs at high prices are necessarily money grabbing so and sos.  People have to make a living, and if you had several gross of dream nibs with no other source of income, what would you do?

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Offline Empty_of_Clouds

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2016, 07:19:42 PM »
If they are to be sold at what Mr Yoke thinks is a fair price (however that is examined) then the only real question is whether to try to restrict them to people who are not simply looking to make a quick buck.  Good luck with that.

If they are going to go only to the "people who know people", well, cliques will be cliques I guess, and as far as I am concerned this would simply confirm a long held understanding about how people in "elite" clubs behave anyway. Certainly I've seen very little to suggest otherwise in my life.

As for the $1 per nib thing,  Leonardt Principals are already sold at twice that per nib at reputable outlets.   

For myself, if I could find a single gross of vintage 404s at a non-mortgage sized price I wouldn't even look for anything else. This has nothing to with the distraction of vintage nibs, as I have actually tried one of these and I really liked it. 

Of course I would still have to get an oblique holder to use them in. One problem at a time.

Irrespective of what Mr Yoke does with his nibs, I hold no hope whatsoever in finding that single box of 404s.   If someone here were to offer one at a reasonable price... well, it's a pity I'm not a gambling man I guess.

Hey, there's an idea. If I buy one of your holders, Chris, would you sell me a box of 404s for a fair price as part of the package?


Offline melanie jane

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2016, 07:25:38 PM »
Empty of Clouds - Good deals on Gillott 404s can be found, you just have to be patient and do a bit (or maybe a lot) of digging and investigation.  Don't give up.

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Offline Empty_of_Clouds

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2016, 07:34:40 PM »
Not that I've ever seen. Ever.  Bearing in mind that I am in New Zealand where such items don't exist.  Since I joined this forum I don't recall seeing any boxes on eBay.  This is the ONLY market place I have access to, and you know what that place can be like. I wish I had the opportunity to make any kind of connection with people "in the know", but as far as I can tell it's mostly private groups.  So what chances do I have that patience will reward?

Offline YokePenCo

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2016, 07:56:26 PM »
@empty of clouds I do recall sending you like two or three 604EF nibs in a normal envelope. I cut little sections out of cardboard and mailed it. That's a bummer they never reached you :(

In regards to 404 boxes being on eBay, I have seen several and passed on them. A few have went for a fair price too. I consider fair to be around $5.00 max per nib for vintage. Most of my nibs come from actively having others search for them on my behalf, business owners who have no affiliation with penmanship at all. It has been tons of networking and patience, but they are still out there. :) Trust me when I say I'm not in any cliques or secret groups, lol. I more often rub the cliques the wrong way instead of being part.

Also in regards to the other mentions of only having my friends have them, that is not what I mean by people I know. It would be people I know have the level of expertise and more importantly penmanship desire. I think the beginner comment is very valid in that most don't keep at it and also we have a large boom of interest in calligraphy. While I hope the interest continues, I honestly expect it to be somewhat of a fad created by online social media. This too makes me wary of just offering them up to people who haven't the desire to continue penmanship. This has turned into an interesting conversation of views.

Lastly, I wouldn't offer them as a bonus to buying a pen from me. If I sell five pens or fifty pens per month, I want it based upon the pen itself, not an incentive for the little piece of disposable steel you put in them.
Christopher J. Yoke
www.yokepencompany.com

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2016, 08:09:10 PM »
Well, I guess the first thing I would do is ask yourself why you bought them all in the first place. If the answer is to make a profit, sell them piecemeal however you will get the best price. If it was to sell them to those in the calligraphy community, 3 & 4 seem to be your best bet. If it was to prevent others from buying them and jacking up the prices, good luck with that. You can't control what happens to them once they leave your hands thus, see numbers 3 and 4.

I've never been a "designer" brand person which is exactly what vintage nibs are... a select, limited supply of highly desired, name brands. I sew my own purses. LOL. I'd rather put the effort into working with what's readily available.
Truly, Erica
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Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2016, 08:12:11 PM »
P.S. I have mixed feelings, FWIW, about reserving them for experienced versus beginner calligraphers. I can see both sides. I tend to lean towards everyone should have a chance to try it but like with most issues, I hover in the middle.  ;)
Truly, Erica
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Offline Empty_of_Clouds

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Re: Advice & Ideas Requested
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2016, 08:26:36 PM »
Chris, that is indeed disappointing that the 604s appear to have gone missing in transit. Certainly not a common occurrence for me I can tell you.  Pity. I thought that maybe you had changed your mind, and I wouldn't have been offended in the least if you had.

$5 a nib? Wow!  Oh well, makes it easy for me to forget all about that idea then.

I hadn't progressed very well in my own calligraphy attempts - in part because it's hard for me to maintain discipline in isolation (I sometimes need a bit of a push), but now that I have managed to rather shamefully break my oblique holders I was on the verge of giving it up.  Resources are just that much more problematic to acquire here.  When you said you may release some of your nib hoard my ears pricked up, but only because of the 404s. I have no interest in any of the other special nibs. 

I was only joking about the "holder + nibs" offer.  If I was in the postion to buy one of your holders (bit unlikely really, but one can dream) it would be for the holder. It's a tricky balance for me. Buying overseas comes at a shipping cost such that the object bought must be of sufficient quality to make it worthwhile. So, buying one of those plastic obliques is just not cost effective.  But that's my problem to deal with.

Anyway, I have a box of 2552s that are more than adequate for low-level people like myself. Just need to get a holder from somewhere now.

My apologies if you thought I was having a dig at you, I wasn't, but at itmes it is hard to get past the frustrations of living in a beautiful yet remote corner of the world!

« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 09:01:58 PM by Empty_of_Clouds »