Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1  (Read 77182 times)

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #450 on: July 29, 2018, 05:05:09 PM »
Hi Salman,

Finally back with an adjustment.  Tried to square off tops and fix the j.  Hope this does the trick-and hope the image is ok[/img].  Have a great day!  :)

The j and i and a bit scrunched together.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 10:56:20 PM by Foxmorepatty »

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #451 on: July 29, 2018, 11:08:19 PM »
Jilt is off..for sure, a bit jilted...

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #452 on: August 01, 2018, 01:08:08 AM »
Here is another go at Group 1 words, Salman.  I did not think the last pass was one of my better efforts.  I am happier with this.

Also, for your viewing pleasure ::) is a subsequent late night stab at Group 2.  I am sure there are plenty of things wrong happening here.  I am feeling a lot more confident overall, and am looking forward to your input on Group 2.  I will try not to practice late at night in the future.

A question:  when my nib becomes difficult to move on the upstroke (scratching/dragging), does that need the nib is past its prime, or am I doing something wrong?

Wishing you well!  Patty

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #453 on: August 04, 2018, 02:38:07 AM »
@Foxmorepatty

Patty - while there is improvement in the second practice sheet, I see room for further refinement.

The counter shape of the 'j' looks good. This is a tough one so you should be proud of yourself for that.

The main issues are spacing and slant. Your letters have a tendency to 'stand up' i.e. more vertical than the slant guides. This is usually a sign of the slit in the nib not aligned with the slant guides. Your nib will try to draw in line with the slit.

The spacing issue often stems from trying to write letters instead of making the strokes that make the letters. This will cause some strokes to be wider than others. All the letters in this group (except the 'j') are based on the 'i' - the exit hairlines should be identical in angle and meet the following letter at mid x-height.

Also, practicing when you are tired is just going to make things harder for you :-)

I am your next attempt will be much improved.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #454 on: August 07, 2018, 05:35:24 PM »
Here you go, Salman.  I have tried to keep my letters on the slant line and squared off.  I think, while not perfect, this is a big improvement.   I would like a little guidance on the width of the w, b connections.  I think the blob swing is a little short, but I do not want the connector width to appear too wide either....  have a great day!  Patty

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #455 on: August 07, 2018, 05:47:52 PM »
Hi Patty - can you kindly upload a higher resolution image.

- Salman
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Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #456 on: August 08, 2018, 12:40:16 PM »
Hi Salman,
With hope, this is a better image.

Patty

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #457 on: August 08, 2018, 02:37:17 PM »
@Foxmorepatty

Hi Patty - the picture is bigger but the letters are the same size. There is just a lot more space around the letter which doesn't help much.

Here's my feedback based on what I can see:

- You seem to be drawing your strokes at speed. I see a bit of a curve in the 'i' strokes and letters based on that stroke.
- Spacing is an issue with longer letters e.g. i-l in 'built' and i-l in 'tilt'. This is also seen in the entry hairlines at the beginning of words being too far away and meeting the shaded stroke too high up - almost at the waist line.
- The last hairline of the 'w' should match the slant angle from 1/2 x-height up. Yours keep moving to the right at a lower angle causing a wide gap in the second counter space.

Also, I will appreciate it if you can submit your work on the guidelines I provided. It gives me an established reference point for feedback.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #458 on: August 08, 2018, 11:53:35 PM »
Here is another try.  I am striving to keep my letters on the slant with uniform stroke width/weight. Also, I worked to improve my connectors, especially the il/ul and from b and w, and working on squaring off the top of the letters.  It looks to me as if my ji connection here is a bit tight, one with an ink blip.  I am also striving to slow down to keep the bottom of the i stroke from curling upward on the right hand side.

Wishing you a wonderful day :)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 12:02:22 AM by Foxmorepatty »

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #459 on: August 17, 2018, 11:25:16 PM »
This is my first post in the Copperplate Minuscules Tutorial, and my first full week of doing only the first group of letters. Before that, I spent a month just getting used to a pointed pen, and trying out nibs and holders. I'm a total newbie to pointed pen; my background is in broad pen and the Cancellaresca Corsica hand, so I'm trying to unlearn 40 years of habits and get used to the wonders of the pointed pen and all its uniqueness. As you can see, I'm a long way from consistency yet! I've posted three days of practice, since I wasn't sure I knew how to post correctly in this forum. I took a leap of faith and just did it. Hoping I did it right!

I deeply appreciate having Salman and other forum members help me to streamline my learning, so that I don't develop bad habits I'll just have to unlearn. I want to do it right, and I'm prepared to work diligently. I'm following all Salman's directions, practicing in groups of five, ticking the letters I think are the best, and using that letter as a model to do the next group of five. I'm very wobbly yet and my spacing horrifies me. I can't make a flat top to save my life. Is there hope for me?

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #460 on: August 18, 2018, 10:23:55 AM »
You do a good job with self analysis and I think you will be there in no time at all.  You have the bones there!

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #461 on: August 18, 2018, 02:45:43 PM »
 Thank You, Patty! It’s very gratifying to have other students who understand the struggle to get shade thickness, angles, spacing and joins working together — and take the time to give another student a thumbs up, so they don’t get discouraged by their fledgling efforts. Your message warmed my heart, and helped me to stop criticizing myself for how badly I’m doing right now, and to focus instead on forward movement, and getting it right in the future. It was the shot of confidence I most needed and a great kindness.

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #462 on: August 18, 2018, 05:00:42 PM »
@Foxmorepatty

Congratulations Patty. You have the group 1 down (ignoring the second 'jilt' for now :-). There is a little bit of shakiness that will go away with time and the gaps in the hairlines should be reduced but you are ready to move on to the next group.

- Salman
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Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #463 on: August 18, 2018, 05:05:14 PM »
@NevadaDeb

So good to see your work Debi. The fist thing that jumps out at me is the very visible improvement in your control from day 1 to day 3. Your loops of the 'j' were good on day 1 but are just lovely on day 3. That is one of the things many struggle with and you have it down at the outset. The 'j' and 'i' in 'jilt' on the last line are just fine. That should tell you that you are almost there.

One of the reasons I ask for writing at 1/4 inch x-height is that the shades at this size are thick enough to show the transitions. You will see the structure better if you try increasing the shade width. Try using a softer nib if your current one is too stiff - you don't want to be using too much force either as that diminishes control.

Now for some feedback (I will focus on the last day's work for these):

- You have fairly consistent slant but the longer strokes like the 'l' have a bit of a curve to them. This suggests movement from the wrist to me. It helps to draw the longer strokes without any movement of the wrist.

- The exit hairlines should match the entry hairlines - it is the same stroke. In 'jilt' on the last line, the entry and exit hairlines of the 'j' match but the exit hairline of the 'i' goes too low, this pushes the 'l' away a bit. The exit hairlines of the 'l' matches the first two so the 't' ends up closer.

- The final stroke of the 'b' and the 'w' should match the slant of the slant guides above 1/2 x-height - yours tend to come back a bit. This breaks the pattern.

Let's focus on thicker shades and the above 3 items for your next attempt. Use the words 'jilt' and 'built' for this one.

- Salman
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 06:32:16 PM by Salman Khattak »
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

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Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #464 on: August 19, 2018, 02:11:14 PM »

Salman,
Thank you so much for your encouraging words, and your excellent guidance. Your post was so helpful, and I am deeply grateful for your feedback. I practiced all night long, until my husband found me asleep at my calligraphy table, nearly falling out of my wheelchair. He woke me up to go to bed, and I groggily replied, “Can’t — gotta practice. BUILT! JILT! BUILT! JILT!” He had no idea what I meant, but glanced down at 18 sheets of BUILT and JILT on the floor and table, and figured it out pretty quickly. Forced into a bit of rest, I woke up at 5 am, eager to make more progress on my practice sheets.

Here is my last effort, and I’m ashamed that I have not been able to get each problem solved, and come out with at least one line of “BUILT” and “Jilt” that didn’t have glaring errors. No such luck. I can now at least SEE the problems, and that is wonderful information! I know it time that my eye-mind-hand will get coordinated, because I can see where my errors are, my problem areas.

As suggested, I have changed to a more flexible Hunt 101 nib, to try to get wider shades. I’ve tried to pay attention to entrance and exit strokes, and get them more parallel and joining at half-x-height. I have practiced movement of my arm, so that I don’t get as much curve in my ascenders —you were so right—It was wrist action causing me to do this, and a bit of old habit as well. I’m still working on all these points to gain some consistency. As you can see, I’m not there yet, but I do see some improvement.

I will keep at it, and am determined to progress and improve. Thank you again for your thoughtful critique, and your welcoming words! I am loving this journey, welcoming the challenge. My husband is thrilled, and says I’m helping stave off Alzheimer’s by working so diligently and staying with it, challenging my mind. I owe you a LOT, Salman!