Author Topic: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1  (Read 52524 times)

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #465 on: August 19, 2018, 09:45:16 PM »
@NevadaDeb

Debi - the structure of your letters and consistency quite improved. Your shades could be thicker still though.

I see a tendency for some of the strokes to stand up (especially the 'u' and 'i' in the second to last and the last 'built'). Rotating the paper counter clockwise so the slit of the nib is in line with the slant guides will help with this. Also, remember to move the paper every two to three words so your hand remains in the sweet spot and you are seeing the letters at the same angle.

One note about practice. It helps if you keep your focused practice sessions short - 30 minutes is about the maximum before the small muscles in our hands get too tired for good control. Another interesting thing I find about practice is that I generally don't see the results of a particular drill until the next time I sit down to write. Interesting how that works.

You can have multiple practice sessions in a day - just make sure your hand is well rested before each one. You can play on for as long as you want. All writing helps with developing control :-)

Let's have a go at the full set now. I am sure you will enjoy it more this time around.

- Salman
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Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #466 on: August 20, 2018, 10:01:29 AM »
Thank you, Salman. Your points are well made and I’ll take each one to heart and practice as you have suggested. Hopefully my next post will show some real progress. I’m very grateful for your thorough and thoughtful critique. It helps immensely.

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #467 on: August 20, 2018, 10:57:34 AM »
Hello Salman,

Here is a fresh take on Group 2 words.  Things I am struggling with: getting a clean closure (squared off) on the strokes requiring a squared off bottom, spacing of m and sometimes n, spacing of p and h.  I feel I am executing the inverted i and the squiggle paperclip shape fairly well.  Also need work on some of the connectors.  Looking forward to your input.  Thanks, Salman and have a great day!
Patty

Offline Foxmorepatty

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #468 on: August 20, 2018, 11:04:21 AM »
Hello Salman,

Here is a fresh take on Group 2 words.  Things I am struggling with: getting a clean closure (squared off) on the strokes requiring a squared off bottom, spacing of m and sometimes n, spacing of p and h.  I feel I am executing the inverted i and the squiggle paperclip shape fairly well.  Also need work on some of the connectors.  Looking forward to your input.  Thanks, Salman and have a great day!
Patty

Oops, I posted in the wrong place.  Not sure how to move it.  Also, the word phub is flubbed up being off slant (the h is upright).

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #469 on: August 20, 2018, 01:14:51 PM »
@Foxmorepatty

Hi Patty - I can move topics but it doesn't look like I can move individual posts. I will give my feedback here then.

This is a really good start. I don't see much to fix other than slant and consistent width of the shade.

The slant is generally off - the letters all seem to be trying to stand up and once in a while a few succeed. Fixing this is your first priority for now. I think you will have an easier time if you turn the paper (even more) counter clockwise.

You might want to try writing with a slightly reduced shade width. They are a bit too thick for this size of writing IMO. The thickness you have in the first 'v' on the second line is perfect. Let's try to make them all like that. I think it will help with the consistency too. Also, watch out for making the shades of the 'v' thinner than other letters in general. This seems to be a common tendency that I need to watch out for all the time too.

The loops of the 'y' have lost their shape again btw.

I find it interesting that I am encouraging one student to make thicker shades at the same time as asking another to reduce them :-)

Let's have another go at this group.

S.
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

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Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #470 on: August 20, 2018, 01:21:46 PM »
Hi Salman,

Things I am in the process of changing, thanks to your incredibly helpful suggestions and Harvest Crittenden’s video posted in Erica’s “Posture and Ergonomics” thread of the General Discussion board.

I had to think carefully about your suggestions, to:

——Get the shade thicker yet. I couldn’t seem to do that without thinking about how I could do it successfully. This led me to Erica’s thread, in search of what I could change in my posture and pen hold, to help facilitate those thicker shades. It wasn’t happening with my death grip on the holder.

——Working on consistency of angle by rotating the paper to match the slit in the tines. I feel like I’m working almost completely sideways and want to keep shifting the paper back to a more upright position. I unconsciously want to change the rotation back to my comfort position while doing a less angled Cancelleresca Corsiva hand. Pointed pen is immensely challenging and there is so much more to remember with every stroke.

——Trying to form new habit of moving the paper every few words back to my sweet spot, instead of stretching my arm out to get to the end of the line. What works with broad pen doesn’t necessarily work with pointed pen. Incredibly helpful suggestion.

——Keeping practice sessions short, 15-30 minutes, then a break to stop and study letterforms, and let my hand relax. Another extremely helpful suggestion.

——Look at next set of letters and words after the break, to see if it looks better. (Yep, it does!)

In addition, from Harvest Crittenden’s video,  I learned that  I should be working on a FLAT writing surface for pointed pen work, instead of an angled one, which I’ve used for decades in my broad pen work. I switched, and I find it much more comfortable, more relaxing for my eyes and hand.

I also learned to use a cushioning sheet and a guard sheet, with a plastic coated playing card under my hand, to help move my hand more freely rather than rely on wrist action, something you have noted in my first post. It was like skating on ice at first, but as I got into the rhythm, it got a bit easier and my ascenders are getting noticeably less wobbly.

*Note: I saw in someone’s video—it may have been Schin’s, but I’m not certain—that she was using a thin glove with the thumb, index and third finger cut out, rather than a guard sheet to protect the paper from oils in the hand. I like this idea, and want to try it.

—I’m back to practicing thicker shades and remembering to start the downstroke with full shade, to get a squared top. These are the first square tops I’ve ever gotten! I recall you mentioning to lift up and turn the pen at the hairline to where we’re sliding off one tine when we go from the shade, to produce nice, thin upstrokes. This is tough for me, as I have been using a “death grip” on my pen holder, and couldn’t easily turn the pen. I am trying to switch to the proper holding of the pen. It still feels unnatural. but I know it’s worth the effort to end the “white knuckle” syndrome.

I will post my progress once I have spent a few days working on all these changes. It’s a lot to remember at one time! But, what a satisfying challenge when I see a good stroke.

Your Group 1 exercises are far more beneficial than I could ever have imagined. At first, I was anxious to move on to the next group, but now I see that the key to success is learning every single nuance of all there is to learn in the Group 1 foundation strokes. I’m in no rush to move ahead now. I just want to see growth and consistency. I'm learning so much from you, it just boggles my mind.

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #471 on: August 24, 2018, 06:30:52 PM »
Trying again. Still working on slant consistency, shade thickness consistency, parallel entrances and exits. I have yet to make a truly decent line of words. Thank you for any advice and insight!

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #472 on: August 27, 2018, 09:32:00 PM »
@NevadaDeb

This is excellent work Debi. I think you'll have an easier time with slightly thicker shades. You have done a good job of maintaining strong letter shapes with this delicate look.

I don't think you need to work on much here except consistency of size. The letters don't all quite sit on the base line. The waist line is more consistent. Try to include the base and waist lines within your strokes. This tiny adjustment is easier than one would think and results in much more consistent letter heights.

Your exit hairlines after the 'j' have a tendency to be straighter which pushes the next letter away a bit. This doesn't happen all the time but is something you should watch out for.

Let's have one more go at the words in this group. Please feel free to replace a word or two with others if you are bored with these.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline Lindah

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #473 on: August 27, 2018, 09:46:31 PM »
Great tutorial.  Thanks.
Lindah

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #474 on: August 29, 2018, 05:21:57 PM »
Hi Salman,

Thank you so much for your valuable and extremely helpful advice. I'm trying to practice the three things you noted:
1. Widen the shade
2. Entrance hairlines not so upright
3. Pierce the base and waist line.

Progress is slow for me. This is the most difficult hand I've ever attempted to learn. I deeply appreciate your patience!

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #475 on: August 31, 2018, 12:27:07 AM »
@NevadaDeb

Debi - this is excellent. The weight works perfectly for this x-height. Your letter structure was already good. You are ready to move on to the next group of letters.

I know you still see areas of improvement and the consistency could be slightly better. This will come as you continue to practice. A couple of things to keep an eye on as you start the next group:

- The exit hairline of the 'j' should start at the base line. Yours have a tendency to be slightly higher.

- Don't 'throw' your exit hairlines, draw them deliberately all the way to about 1/2 x-height. This seems to be happening towards the end of the line where the tips show signs of a gradual lift of the pen off the page.

- Watch that slant - 'tui' and 'wit' are standing up a bit.

I will be looking forward to your submission for group 2.

- Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Toronto Pen Company

Offline NevadaDeb

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #476 on: August 31, 2018, 11:00:00 AM »
Salman,

Thank you so much! I'm posting one last pass on these letters, though I will continue practicing them daily as I move into Group 2 letters. Your critique was so very helpful. Though this last post here still has a few problems with consistency, I think it's much better than the last attempt I did. Thank you again!

Debi

Offline Vipul

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Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« Reply #477 on: April 23, 2019, 03:17:19 PM »
Hi @Salman Khattak
Going back to the basics and practicing the basic strokes. Sorry if they are not exactly as per your groups. 
Regards,
Vipul