Just a side note regarding Engraver's Script :-
I do think that it's unfortunate that, in the Zanerian instructions, no mention is made of its predecessor, English Roundhand. Although it's closely related to ER being descended from it , it's as though the style emerged one day, fully formed from thin air!
Ken
Hey Ken!
Well, it's been several years since this thread was discussed, but I thought I'd follow up on it anyway. I'm just getting back into the forum. Please excuse my tardiness!
In regards to your statement quoted above: Both the first and second edition of the Zanerian Manual contain a plate from William Milnes'
The Penman's Repository (1775) clearly establishing a pedigree for the Engrosser's Script as a derivation of its English counterpart. In my opinion, this is a full acknowledgment that the style had not 'emerged from thin air'.
p.12
The Zanerian Manual (1918)
In regards to Estafa's thoughts:
I think that means that the little gaps on the baseline and between parts of letters are for explanation – and not meant to be written like that.
I also think it does not matter how often one raises the pen – as long as the outcome is beautiful. As different as people are, as different their way and method to produce beautiful letters may be. There are also different ways to develop a rhythm in writing, @Masgrimes – I personally find the pen lifting on a downstroke only helpful when it's a stem (like the first downstroke on a "n"), but not in an oval or a compound curve (like the second downstroke in the "n"). Like Ken said, for me it also disrupts the flow and feels just weird and uncomfortable.
There certainly are different ways to develop rhythm while writing. Perhaps my previous statement is oversimplified. The benefit of lifting the pen is not to increase
speed or
comfort but to increase
accuracy. My Engrosser's Script does not personally flow so much as it tumbles. Certain stroke combinations require less delay between lift and subsequent execution. The timing of stroke placement is not so much 1-1-1-1 as it might be 123--1234--123--1-12-123. Was this how historic penmen wrote? Likely not. Unfortunately the only instruction I know of that covers this type of theory is for practical writing.
I also think we should hesitate to utilize Zaner as a model for all things roundhand. The thinking/execution between Zaner's material and Lupfer's is significant enough that we should consider their words and plates distinctly. Vitolo (and indeed all of us that have stemmed from his influence) tends to write much more akin to Lupfer than we did to Zaner (Roundhand/ES, anyway.)
Considering your suggestion that the lifts are only visible in educational material, I can say from first-hand experience this is not the case. I have original specimens from Howe, Lupfer, Norder etc. that are all meant for professional reproduction or personal correspondence that all contain visible lifts. This was a hallmark of the style and a natural byproduct of the baseline lift.
For 'display' script (script to be prepared at size without reduction), these penmen would often retouch their materials prior to handing off to the engraver. This would include filling in small gaps at the baseline left as a result of the pen lifts.
Here are some clips of Lupfer's own words on these subjects.
https://i.imgur.com/UIvsRgn.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/4RkhVOY.pngThat being said, I would no longer disqualify a non-lifted style from being deemed 'Engrosser's Script', I would simply call it a 'modernism'. Over the past few years, I have better formed my understanding of the baseline lift. It has three main benefits which are outlined simply as:
1.) The lift serves a role in the rhythm of creation and creates regular intervals for which shapes and lateral positioning can be evaluated and controlled.
2.) The lift serves to reduce the likelihood of
nib turnover in which during a downstroke a fiber of the paper is captured between the tines and creates a line-quality issue upon the bottom turn.
3.) It protects and isolates the
interior-angular-nature of ES, which Lupfer
admittedly was not the largest proponent of, but we see clear as day in the more prolific Engrosser's Script penmen like Baird and Norder.
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Anyway, just my thoughts on the subject. Hope you both have been enjoying your pursuits!
David