A Bit of a Problem

[r_b_calligraphy]

I currently am using a Leonardnt Principal nib for the engrossers that I practice. When I use anything other than walnut ink, or iron gall ink (Gouache, Finetec, Pearl-ex) I try to flourish and half way through the flourish the ink wont flow off the nib. Now I feel the consistency is appropriate when I mix it (skim milk is viscosity) but I don't know what to do. When I check there appears to be enough of whatever I'm using on the nib.....should i make it thinner perhaps? Any help would be appreciated

[Cecilia]

Hello Roy,
what you're mentioning as 'not working' is all inks made with pigments and in my little experience I've noticed that some nibs just hold the pigments bad, so I've selected which ones to use with which ink. The Leonardt G produces pretty decent thins in upstrokes and works good with pigmented mixtures (be it gouache, Pearlex or Fintec).
Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing this. Hope someone knows and shares the technical reason
C.

[jeanwilson]

My guess would be that thinning the gouache will be your solution. As I recall, there is not a point at which gouache is too thin to behave like ink. When it is thinner and more watery, then it loses its opacity - so you may not get the intensity of color that you have with thicker gouache...but, it will still work. I remember in my first workshop with Peter Thornton, near the end of the day, he had us do some writing with our dirty rinse water. The tones were very soft and the effect was very pretty.

When the ink or gouache is more watery, you may not be able to load as much in the nib - but frequent nib loading should not be a problem unless you are going for flourishes that are super complicated or very large.

Another thing to remember with gouache is that it is constantly drying out so you might need to be adding water a little more often. If I am addressing envelopes, I probably add a drop of water after every 2 or 3 envelopes. I would not expect to sit and write with a pan of gouache for a half hour and have it remain the right consistency.

[r_b_calligraphy]

Hello Roy,
what you're mentioning as 'not working' is all inks made with pigments and in my little experience I've noticed that some nibs just hold the pigments bad, so I've selected which ones to use with which ink. The Leonardt G produces pretty decent thins in upstrokes and works good with pigmented mixtures (be it gouache, Pearlex or Fintec).
Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing this. Hope someone knows and shares the technical reason
C.

Thanks Cecilia!... The natural follow up question would be what nibs do you use for which ink?

[r_b_calligraphy]

My guess would be that thinning the gouache will be your solution. As I recall, there is not a point at which gouache is too thin to behave like ink. When it is thinner and more watery, then it loses its opacity - so you may not get the intensity of color that you have with thicker gouache...but, it will still work. I remember in my first workshop with Peter Thornton, near the end of the day, he had us do some writing with our dirty rinse water. The tones were very soft and the effect was very pretty.

When the ink or gouache is more watery, you may not be able to load as much in the nib - but frequent nib loading should not be a problem unless you are going for flourishes that are super complicated or very large.

Another thing to remember with gouache is that it is constantly drying out so you might need to be adding water a little more often. If I am addressing envelopes, I probably add a drop of water after every 2 or 3 envelopes. I would not expect to sit and write with a pan of gouache for a half hour and have it remain the right consistency.

Thx Jean for your insights...I didn't know you couldn't thin it too much as I was always afraid too much water. I'll have to give it a try and see what happens. As I'm thinking of it now, do you think more gum arabic might help the flow at all? I just use a little since I've read that it's already present in gouache.

[jeanwilson]

I don't know about gum arabic because I never got around to trying it. I am not a supply junkie so there are many things I have never tried. But, Since I know it is an essential for many scribes, I would say - sure - go ahead and try it.  Your paper makes a big difference with any ink or gouache. If you are using gouache, to solve the problem of feathery ink on a particular paper, you will not be able to water down the gouache and get good results.

Glair is something that I have made and used with excellent results that provides the similar improvements of gum arabic.
Here is a recipe - although I let my egg whites sit for a lot longer - several hours.

http://artid.com/members/calligraphy/blog/post/1458-how-to-make-glair

[Cecilia]

Glair is something that I have made and used with excellent results that provides the similar improvements of gum arabic.
Here is a recipe - although I let my egg whites sit for a lot longer - several hours.

http://artid.com/members/calligraphy/blog/post/1458-how-to-make-glair

I knew this would have been an interesting thread.
Thanks Jean for sharing the glair recipe article.
I found this post on gouache very interesting http://artid.com/members/calligraphy/blog/post/1483-working-with-gouache.
About watering gouache and cleaning your nib while using gouache every now and then.

@Roy: my preferred pointed nib for gouache is Leonardt G. I buy it at Cornelissen online, since I'm in Europe. They're not so expensive and last for a good amount of time (unless you're using iron gall ink o.c.). Other pointed nibs that I mostly use are Zebra and Nikko G and both have problems with the gouache I mix. Reading Jean's answer made me want to try glair instead of gum arabic. I have a feeling it can help pigments release more color still keeping its binding quality. I'll give it a try ^_^

[jeanwilson]

let's make a thread somewhere in the most basic info with the title

gum arabic and glair additives to gouache

is there a place where the most important basic information is catalogued
so that it is easier for new people find the basics
and also easier for us to steer people to the basics when the topic comes up again?

[James P]

I haven't used gouache for a long time but here is an extract (rough) from a series of panels I did on commission about thirty years ago. Although not related to pointed pen writing, I thought the information might be of use in this discussion.

The writing was rendered using Winsor & Newton zinc white and spectrum yellow Designers gouache with reservoired Tape nibs on Artists 2ply acid-free Mat board.

I mixed the tubed gouache to a milky consistency using distilled water and refreshed it after each line of writing (I think). I used Tape nibs because I found them easier to load and they produced finer letterforms (than Mitchell).

I did use Gum Arabic with other gouache renditions but I have forgotten exactly how I mixed it. I only used glair for flat gilding.

Others will undoubtedly find different nibs and materials work better for them.

James 

[Cecilia]

let's make a thread somewhere in the most basic info with the title

gum arabic and glair additives to gouache

is there a place where the most important basic information is catalogued
so that it is easier for new people find the basics
and also easier for us to steer people to the basics when the topic comes up again?

I just checked and there's a thread already open under General Categories > Tool & Supplies
This one


I made glair yesterday. Still have to try it with gouache.


But I had the two egg yolks left and added a little bit of that to some walnut ink in one pot and to a leftover of Schmincke Vermillion gouache.
I had to dilute it a little more than I usually do because it went too creamy to flow from my nib.
What happened (to my surprise) is that it stayed somewhat glossy when dry.
Here are a couple of pictures I took of the dried up letters.


The end result is very beautiful. I will see what happens with time. Animal proteins may have some bad effect on color durability.

[Estefa]

That's fascinating, Cecilia !

As far as I know, glair was used traditionally a lot for binding colors i.e. pigments – for example in mediaval miniatures. So I guess as long as it's kept dry, there shouldn't be a problem with color changes …

[KarenDodo]

Try Schens tutorials on nibs:

[jeanwilson]

have you seen the video of donald jackson preparing the yolk for the bible?
it's so cool how he pierces the yolk so that the outer sac is not included
egg tempera is super stable
maybe others who know more about it will post more

[AndyT]

The best source of information on this sort of thing (couldn't decide how to phrase it ... labour-intensive animal-based media, perhaps?) that I've found is still Dorothy Hutton's article on pigments and media in The Calligrapher's Handbook.  Covers gum, glair, egg tempera, parchment size, and fish glue if I remember correctly, as well as grinding your own pigments.

The book is a gold mine and one of the half-dozen or so I absolutely would not care to be without.  It's worth the price for Donald Jackson's article on quill curing and cutting alone (which was why I bought it).  There's also good information in Timothy Noad's book on illumination, the name of which is refusing to come to mind - sorry.

As for Jackson's video, it's towards the end of the second part of The Story of Writing, which is to say 50 minutes or so into the first of the two videos linked to below.

Part 1
Part 2