Author Topic: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian  (Read 9427 times)

Offline AndyT

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2017, 12:40:37 PM »
@Garima

There's a fun thread here for drill refuseniks, where I laid my cards on the table.  :)  The truth of the matter is that drills probably do help, but if it feels like a spirit-crushing chore maybe not.  Since business penmanship is quite mechanistic anyway, cross drills might be a good thing to try - and they're quite enjoyable, I think.

Offline AndyT

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2017, 01:04:41 PM »
Awaiting kind critique.

Well, once again the initial impression is "wow".  I am so jealous of those flying descenders - they contribute a lot to the appearance of "dashiness" which is a hallmark of good Ornamental Penmanship.

A couple of additional points for your consideration: r is a little taller than the other letters, by a quarter space if you are being picky.  It's worth making a point of doing that, otherwise the letter can look a little indistinct.  The same point about the height goes for s, and you can really emphasise it if you want, almost as tall as a t.  Again, this is a rather dashy thing to do, but not necessarily all the time.  Oh, and whilst I think of it, you could raise the dot of i (and j) so that it's level with the top of t.  Just be careful to line it up with the main slant.

There are a couple of uncapped ts, by the way.  ;)  Only teasing - you're in very good company there ... in fact I've sometimes wondered whether the old timers regarded it as optional.  Or maybe they were human after all.

Sterling work, Ashok.  :)

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2017, 03:50:45 PM »
Hi Andy,
This all sound like a dream Andy. I have already pinched myself hard :D :D.
Thank you again for such a detailed feedback. I agree with the 'r' and 's'. Now that I have the 'x-height' measurement I think I will take of if. All this while I been writing with an imaginative 'x-height' in my head and which pleases to the eye. What I posted is in fact the 4th rendition after 3 failed attempts.

Let me try something tonight for me to post.

Thanks again,
-Ashok

Offline Rednaxela

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2017, 04:41:27 PM »
@Garima, drills can be super interesting and super useful. But only when you know why you do them. When you consider taking on a certain drill, make sure you know what purpose it serves, and what it exactly aims to develop. Look up Marcus Carlini on Instagram for videos showing how drills are applied to build movement for specific letters.

@ash0kgiri, that's looking great. Shading is much more accurate, well done! Careful not to execute your ascender loops the Copperplate way though, something that seems to slip in here and there. Looking forward to some unshaded work from your hand too. In any case, keep up the good work!
-- Alexander --

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2017, 11:00:19 AM »
Hi Alexander,
Thank your for your feedback. I had a great time with your 'LIVE' session on IG yesterday. Hope to have more such sessions in future.

-Ashok

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2017, 11:13:27 AM »
Hello,

Here's my Saturday Practice. Im sure there are flaws. @Rednaxela the next practice sheet will be absolutely without any shading. (I mean I will try to control not to :D)
As always kindly spare your valuable time to critique.

Thanks,
-Ashok

Offline AndyT

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2017, 07:04:51 AM »
Looking good again, Ashok.  I look forward to seeing the unshaded sample.

A couple more things to think about: t caps, and x.  I'm not going to issue any opinions about these because they're in the realms of personal taste - but in both cases there are options to consider.  The various samples in the back of the Bloser book are a happy hunting ground.  Also, there's "final t" - an uncapped or crossed variant which can come in handy especially at the end of a line.  It's not included in the New Compendium exemplar, but you'll find it a couple of pages later in the illustration for lesson 5.

Offline Garima

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2017, 03:11:39 AM »
There's a fun thread here for drill refuseniks, where I laid my cards on the table.  :) 

@AndyT The thread has helped me conclude that i should do what pleases me! :D I was actually mighty confused about the significance of perfectly shaped drills! I like doing a bit of it everyday so until i figure out what difference it does/does not make, i'll keep at it!

@When you consider taking on a certain drill, make sure you know what purpose it serves, and what it exactly aims to develop.

@Rednaxela THIS is what i wanted to know when i asked that question at the beginning of the thread - the purpose of a specific drill! I have been following Marcus since a long time now and HIS precision is what scared me but i've made my peace with it now. Will learn why/why not on the go! :)
Garima Singh
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ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2017, 04:12:18 AM »
I look forward to seeing the unshaded sample.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the encouragement. I know what you saying. I have the Bloser's sheets printed and ready to use. And I will get back to them this week.
What I'm trying to understand is while i was learning Engrosser's I had a very specific approach to learning i.e following Salman's tutorials.
Each alphabet was dissected and helped me understand the letter form and build muscle memory.

With spencerian (especially caps letters) how do one build muscle memory and understand the letter forms? Lot of random question hitting my head. Let me try and filter them next time I ask :D

Thanks,
Ashok

Offline AndyT

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2017, 07:38:20 AM »
The thread has helped me conclude that i should do what pleases me!

@Garima Seems like a good conclusion to me.  :)  Some people like drills, but others see them as a form of self-flagellation.  I've never found that they translate well to actual writing, but everone's different.

With spencerian (especially caps letters) how do one build muscle memory and understand the letter forms?

@ash0kgiri You could consider the letter forms as assemblies built up from the seven principles (see attached), with a few extras here and there.  Although this is rather mechanistic it's what works for me in terms of understanding the forms.  If you feel that's a helpful way to approach learning, you might want to download this book (or buy the Mott Media reprint), which breaks everything down in those terms.  Muscle memory (or "memory" as I call it ;) ) is a matter of careful repetition, I guess.  Drills may work well for you - I wouldn't want to deter anyone from giving them a fair go.

Offline FingerprintDesigns

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2017, 09:28:27 AM »
Beautiful work! Very inspiring

Offline Rednaxela

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2017, 11:11:34 AM »
With spencerian (especially caps letters) how do one build muscle memory and understand the letter forms?

How about Plate II of The New Spencerian Compendium? Doesn't it provide all you need to understand the forms?
-- Alexander --

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2017, 11:56:42 PM »

Offline Rednaxela

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 03:01:52 PM »
@Garima, @AndyT, for me, currently, learning to write is learning to feel. This is why I do drills myself, and this is also what transfers reasonably well to my actual writing. The results of the drills themselves usually look hopeless, but at this stage of my development I find this to be less important.
-- Alexander --

Offline Garima

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Re: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Spencerian
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2017, 02:26:54 AM »
@Garima, @AndyT, for me, currently, learning to write is learning to feel. This is why I do drills myself, and this is also what transfers reasonably well to my actual writing. The results of the drills themselves usually look hopeless, but at this stage of my development I find this to be less important.

Thank you for the wonderful live session yesterday! I did the drills after the session and can totally relate to why you promote them. Too early for me to comment still but i get the point.
Garima Singh
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