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Messages - brd4790

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Tools & Supplies / Re: Sanding pot
« on: February 09, 2017, 09:57:42 PM »
At first I thought the coin was a half-dollar... but it's a dime!!!

Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: February 07, 2017, 07:10:20 PM »
hi Chetwyn, nice practice sheet! Your shade seems too thick to me. You might try easing up on your downstrokes, and that may also help with your tapering...  In my (limited) experience, tappering smoothly is difficult when you open the nib really wide. IMO it's better to start with shades that are too thin and marginally apply more pressure as you practice until thickness looks right. good luck!

Broad Edge Pen Calligraphy / Re: Words of wisdom
« on: February 06, 2017, 06:47:44 PM »
lol, Todd - is that purely a joke or also serious? Ken's writing was perfectly clear to me and I'm genuinely curious what you found difficult about reading it if you care to elaborate.

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: PENMAN- A gender biased language?
« on: February 02, 2017, 12:10:01 AM »
Thank you Andy - very interesting! your distinction between penmanship and calligraphy makes sense, but I am somewhat surprised by it. Six month ago (before I started really thinking about this stuff), when I'd see utilitarian italic I'd think "that's calligraphy", but I wouldn't have said the same for the fancy spencerian on my college diploma.. I'd just think "wow that's some fancy writing". Perhaps this is rooted in me being an American, or that my biggest exposure to "calligraphy" was in the 5th grade learning italic with a 1.2mm blue brush marker. But in fact my 5th grade experience wasn't learning calligraphy at all - it was penmanship all along.

I see this question (OP's question) entirely different now. For example, my good friend's 10 year old daughter breaks the bank buying various pens from JetPens. She doodles and plays around with her writing style - all of which is uniquely her own handwriting but also very consistently written. Many of her school friends do this too... they're all 10 year old girls... we couldn't conceivably call them penmen. What are they? How do they talk about their own playing with writing? I'll see if I can get the inside scoop.

OED for free?? Alas, I'm American... I could try to escape to the UK, but not sure that'd work out either  :o

Open Flourish | General Discussion / Re: NEW RECORD!!!
« on: February 01, 2017, 10:09:24 PM »
hahah nice :)... OK, a new new years resolution - make it to 100 online at once! I'll do my part by staying online 24/7, and we already know @ash0kgiri never closes his browser.

Kind Critique / Re: My first efforts
« on: January 31, 2017, 08:59:51 PM »
Very nice progress Greg! I liked your "Missed it again!" - hahaha, I do that a lot too, and I'm right handed!

I'm a newbie as well, so can't critique much. a lot of good stuff going on there, and I see a few things to work on that you probably see too: (1) the slant on some of your letters does not maintain the "52 degree" like many of your d's; (2) after you write a word you could spend some time touching up the letter especially squaring off the tops - some of your shades are a bit rounded at the top and squaring off makes them look better; (3) the shade widths and tappering are not consistent, for example look at the first "about" - the "b" shade is really thick compared to the others, and the "u" has inconsistent shades on the left and right... generally the left and right sides of the "u" should look the same as each other and both should look the same as "i".

In my experience #3 could be partially due to Nikko G nib, because you're writing at 1/4'' and drawing pretty think shades... it's not so flexible so that's not easy IMO. I had a ton of trouble with shade consistency and tappering consistency while using Nikko G. I switched to Hunt 101 and Leondart Principal EF - both are much more flexible and easier to produce those thick shades.

Also, one other thing - do you have any padding under your practice sheet like extra sheets of paper or something? It seems like you might be writing directly on your table, which makes things more difficult too IMO.

Right now I'm working through Salman's (SMK's) tutorial, and I highly recommend it. Salman is very generous in providing detailed feedback on where to improve, which is incredibly helpful in achieving consistency.

Again, nice progress! Good luck! thanks for sharing :).

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: PENMAN- A gender biased language?
« on: January 31, 2017, 08:30:55 PM »
Thanks Andy! Yeah I wish I had OED subscription. I was thinking and maybe the quote suggests that a penman was a professional with responsibility beyond just writing and bookkeeping. So perhaps how the meaning of the word penman has evolved over time is pretty interesting.

Sorry still not clear to me... do calligrapher and penman have different meanings today?? If so, what is the difference? I think the answer to this is "yes" - a penman only necessarily performs certain types of writing like spencerian, whereas a calligrapher is a more general term. So a penman is a type of calligrapher, but a calligrapher is not always a penman if say they only use broad edge. Am I right? is there a more precise way to explain?

Thank you!

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: PENMAN- A gender biased language?
« on: January 30, 2017, 09:35:14 PM »
I just learned that "chirography" is a word that means the study of penmanship - "chiro" derives from Greek of hand and "graph" derives from Greek of write.
there's a lot of English words like {greek derivative} + "graphy" that have to do with writing e.g. calligraphy, stenography, epigraphy, orthography, chirography  ... ("calli" btw derives from Greek of beauty). This is a way that people make up words.. so we could follow suite - just have to find an appropriate Greek derivative that isn't already taken  ;D

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: PENMAN- A gender biased language?
« on: January 30, 2017, 08:36:36 PM »
Certainly some words evoke more negative emotion than others, and "penman" is not near the top of the list. Still it's fun for me to think of an alternative that's gender neutral, because yes I have absolutely nothing better to do ;)

I can't find good info on the origin of "penman" - just that it's from around 1610s - does anyone have more info?
I'm also getting confused about what we're talking about when we say penman. I thought penmanship was about handwriting, which I guess is distinct from calligraphy in the way it's performed? I'm guessing so because calligraphy & calligrapher already have a beautiful etymology and sound great.

I'm being naive here I guess - just wanted to be clear on what OP is asking for? a term that describes someones whose job or hobby is performing handwriting?


Copperplate Tutorial by SMK / Re: Copperplate Minuscules - Group 1
« on: January 30, 2017, 06:37:49 PM »
thanks a lot Salman!

edit: I just finished my 1st practice of group 2 letters - it's already improved my turns and spacing dramatically... I see there's the i, the inverted i, the compound curve, and the required symmetry to make them all fit together for forming the letters. For me, for example, it was a revelation to draw a "y" b/c if the turn is off on the compound curve it's obvious because the letter looks terrible. Very cool!  8)

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: PENMAN- A gender biased language?
« on: January 30, 2017, 08:41:17 AM »
neirah, yeah in some English speaking countries that's a common view and hence the conflict. A fair amount of people are uncomfortable with terms like fireman so when there's an easy alternative like firefighter it's more polite to use it... though even me saying that it's more polite is just my opinion and could upset some.

Andy I think that was your point which is the most important point. When I stated my POV I was referring to a specific section in Wikipedia where it was talking about language having a way of changing behavior...b I realize that was unclear and not sure why I even said that... I think because OP said he was going to write a paper for class.   Sorry if I offended anyone as this forum seems like not the place to have a heated debate.

Coffee & Nib-bles / Re: PENMAN- A gender biased language?
« on: January 29, 2017, 11:08:28 PM »
It's nice that you're thinking about this. This is somewhat a controversial topic as you may already know as there are two common viewpoints here: "man" can be used as a root word that refers to all of mankind (as in "human"), and, conversely, "man" suggests a male gender. I've always jokingly said that an easy fix for this is to stop calling males "man" and add a prefix to imply male like "maleman" (I'm just playing, not trying to be flippant).The wikipedia article on gender-biased language is a good start for finding sources on this if you haven't already looked there. My view falls in the camp of gender unbiased language is fine, but, unfortunately, I don't think it will help overcome sexism.

Also, here's an interesting link on some famous female penmen that you may find as an interesting start for further reserach:

And now for what you really asked for my suggestion is "penwielder" - I like it b/c wielder suggest sword, and the pen is mightier than the sword after all ;)

Tools & Supplies / Re: What color inks do you avoid?
« on: January 29, 2017, 07:29:34 PM »
I'm with you on fire engine red and really any color that causes me to think "panic!" or "clowns". For writing, I like pretty much any darker tones and grays.
The first bouquet is absolutely gorgeous. I made the mistake of showing it to my wife... now I'm going to have to track down something that nice for valentines day  :o.. speaking of valentines day I got this ink for my valentines' cards: Have you ever tried it? You seem like you'd have a thing for scented inks... but maybe this shade is a no-go for you ;)

Tools & Supplies / Re: My Favorite Toy So Far - You'll Want One
« on: January 29, 2017, 11:04:49 AM »
man @Krapprot , you have a lot of cool stuff. Maybe you should start a single thread and post all your cool toys for easy browsing ... I love seeing what other people buy - even though it encourages  me to break my budget  ;D
I've never used onion skin paper, looks interesting... I'm surprised that it doesn't bleed or tear - do you ever run in to troubles or just use certain types of pens / inks?

Thanks for sharing!

Design & Layout / Re: Valentine's Day Cards
« on: January 27, 2017, 10:23:00 PM »
hahaha.. that's so funny. I see it! I thought it was a ewe's face / head and it was a play on words... lol.
wow I feel just a little embarrassed   :-[... I'm such a know it all ;) haha.

It's very cool - the delicate stokes on the Pikachu ears are beautiful. First time? that's great - i'm sure you'll be a pro in no time.

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