Ink Academy's IndieGoGo campaign

[Erica McPhee]

And just so I am making myself clear here ...

Where does one sign up right now to learn Ornamental Penmanship, Engrosser's Script, Blackletter, and Spencerian from one of four Master Penmen and/or highly skilled calligraphers with 25 one-on-one sessions? And how does one find them all in one place? Where are they located? And how much will it cost one to travel to where ever they are? And how long will it take for one to mail or email one's work for feedback? And how intense is the program? And how difficult is it to get into the classes?

I thought so.

[Scarlet Blue]

$2,800 = £2,166

I will have to stick to my books from Amazon. I don't think I could explain away £2,166 to my husband!!!

[Nickkih]

I'm really surprised by some of the responses on the Ink Academy. Why so much negativity on such a positive endeavor?  I love what Suzie is doing for calligraphy. Her heart and passion shines!!!! I look forward to being a part of it as a student.

[AnasaziWrites]

I'm really surprised by some of the responses on the Ink Academy. Why so much negativity on such a positive endeavor?

This puzzles me as well. But then, the older I get, the less I seem to know about these things. There's no ill will towards anyone as far as I see. Life's too short to get into a swivet about all this.
Time for a little soothing practice for me.

[Erica McPhee]

I understand what you are saying @Scarlet Blue but I think it comes down to what people are willing to invest in their education/learning, especially if they want to attain a certain level of accomplishment or become a professional calligrapher. Comparatively speaking, the price for the program at Ink.Academy is extremely reasonable for an advanced level of study.

Tuition at Maine College of Art for one semester which would include 4 or 5 classes, but no art supplies, lasting 4 months: $17,060.

Tuition at Ringling College of Art in Florida for same: $20,795.

Cost of 5 days at the International Lettering Arts Conference (includes daily classes, room in a dorm, and food): $1500 + airfare.

Ink.Academy: bargain.

[brandonC]

I have to agree with the last post.   Being cynical is not just being human but becoming more and more engrained in today's society especially in the US.  People are not trusting corporations and businesses, government institutes, religious institutions, schools, neighbors, and even is some cause their own families as they used too.   And when it comes to higher education there is reason to be cyanical.  For profit schools like Everest, ITT, Phoenix, and the now infamous Trump university took tons of money from students without giving them a proper education.    I mention these schools because when I read the first post and watched the video those were the first thing that came to mind even though the art academy clearly isn't trying to be an institute mirroring those mentioned.  Even after I looked into more and mentioned it to my wife the first thing she asked is "Its not another one of those schools."

With that being said,  after reviewing all I could find online and a brief one on one, the instructors involved certainly help solidify the legitimacy of the institute.  The cost is reasonable if someone wants the opportunity to advance in calligraphy and seek more than a hobby.  I for one have become very interested in this opportunity and have seemed more info on a one to one basis. My brief convo with Suzie was informative and her passion is undeniable.

If you compare what's charged per envelope for a wedding, it would seem this investment could pay for itself very quickly. 

[Jamie]

If you do the math, a typical college spring semester at 4 different classes gets you ~320 sessions. At the cost of the Maine college that Erica listed that's $53 a session.

Counting the one-on-one sessions and the classes the Ink Academy is going to be 50 sessions at $56 a session. So it's a comparable cost, not a bargain.

But Maine is going to be in person and in my opinion that's worth a lot more than an online class, even when half the sessions are one on one. ESPECIALLY because the other half of the sessions can easily be recorded and then played to class after class after class (which is smart!), so that after the first few suddenly that money is really only going towards 25 sessions and access to the 25 videos that have been pre-recorded. Not to mention calligraphy of any kind is highly specialized and while it is possible to make a career of it, it's hard, and I'd posit you'd get more (work related) value out of taking even one general graphic design class at an art school than a highly specialized course on calligraphy.

I'm not saying Ink Academy is bad, and I think it's great they're trying. But I think if one really wanted more people to get into calligraphy you'd be trying harder to lower the cost of entrance. Because I really do think the cost of lettering classes is part of why people don't want to pick up the pen and when they do, it's sloppy modern calligraphy- because it's the easiest to learn on a budget.

Anyway that's all I have to say on the subject. I do wish Ink Academy all the best. There's certainly a lot of good in the endeavor and I'd rather see it succeed than fail.

[Erica McPhee]

Classes at the colleges I have attended were 3 times a week for about 16 weeks. That would be 192 sessions not 320.

In any event, the cost does not just include the enormous production costs (these aren't filmed on an iphone), they also include the huge number of hours the instructors are putting into their curriculum development, details of the program, implementation, ongoing processes, etc. It's like how someone sets their rate for calligraphy - you aren't paying for just that one piece or line or envelope, you are paying for the calligrapher's years of training, experience, talent, etc.

To put it another way - once a book or video or any product has met its production costs, they don't start giving it away for free or cut its price.

 

I'd posit you'd get more (work related) value out of taking even one general graphic design class at an art school than a highly specialized course on calligraphy.

A good graphic design class is worth its weight in gold for sure! And I appreciate your opinion as it really is a matter of choice in terms of what someone thinks will advance their skill or business. It also matters why one is motivated to take the course in the first place whether the value is in it for them or not. I started my calligraphy business before I had ever taken a real calligraphy course but I can say without a doubt every single workshop I have taken over the years has improved my work and contributed to the advancement of my business. Business aside, people also have goals to improve their work purely for the satisfaction of it - which essentially has no value price tag other than what someone is willing to pay. 

As Suzie said earlier, the Ink.Academy isn't about promoting calligraphy to the masses. Learning anything is on a spectrum from free tutorials, to local classes, to workshops, to specialized schools. The value in any program is really if the cost is worth meeting your goals.

[Jamie]

You are right about the three times a week, that was poor memory on my part!

And I'm aware of production costs - I could argue more on that but it would be terribly off topic and so I'll keep my mouth shut.

[sheila247]

I have just gone back and figured how much money I have spent on Calligraphy workshops, online classes, and Skillshare since 2015.  This does not include any of the supplies needed for these classes, travel cost, or meals  --  I have spent $3430.00.  When I look at it in that context the cost of Ink.Academy doesn't seem all that pricey.

Have I recouped these cost with my business?  Nope, not yet - has the money and time been worth it for what I have gained?  You bet!!   

[suzietwig]

hi guys!!

It's ME again This thread has been great to help clarify misconceptions and add details where there may have been blurry spots! Thank you all for giving us the opportunity to shed some natural light on things <3

My hubby (also known as Serge, Fig or Mr. Fox) has been following this thread like a HAWK! haha. And he lovingly wrote the following words and kind-of hinted that I share it with you. He has some good points to offer, so I agreed All of that being said...I give you Serge!

*****************************************************

Hello all!

I believe we all know and experienced how a text or an email can be misread, misunderstood and misconstrued (to heartbreaking results at times!). It's one of the trappings and pitfalls that happens when the writing lacks the speaker's tone, facial expressions and cues that a real-life conversation conveys naturally. Moreover, a conversation allows to ask immediate questions like "what do you mean by that?" to help clarify any questions, and avoid mis-perception.

Ink.Academy (and Suzie) is coming with something different than what we've all been used to so far in the calligraphy world.  As hard as Suzie is trying to convey every detail on the subject, inevitably some will read it as if it were a text message and it can become loaded with very primal emotional responses, with no chance for a real conversation to relieve doubts or fear (or it seems, even anger at times).

I find myself puzzled at to why so few people are taking the time to enquire with questions directly to the source (aka asking Suzie) instead of venting fully formed opinion randomly. It could potentially defuse so many misconceptions (but not all - as I am quite aware that some times opinions will naturally differ, and that's all right too). What is distressing is seeing opinions being vocalized based on incomplete or unclear bits of information.

Subjects like cost of the program(s); where does the money go; teacher credentials; classes offered - to name just a few topics - so far brought some elevated emotions and conversations. many of which could potentially have been cleared up with simple questions to Suzie (or so I believe).

In a lightning-speed-nutshell here are a few thing one could have heard:

The $2800 cost everyone talks about is for the Master's Certification program: we're talking two years worth of classes (with a minimum of four different subjects). The course is spread out over 1-2 years and is comprised of 25 individual lessons. Each individual lessons last up one hour and are followed with a mandatory homework (for *each* lesson). After the homework is complete, the instructor will spend 30 minutes minimum reviewing and correcting the assignment followed by a one-on-one review with the teacher via a video chat session. The homework will end with a acceptable to pass/no pass grade (and the homework to be redone if necessary until the passing grade is given before moving to the next lesson).

I personally do not know of any teaching being so thorough right now, but I do not hold world knowledge. Certainly no normal college (as discussed in this thread) offers anything similar: one-on-one teacher/student meetings to this extent. Likewise, taking a class in-person does not constitute as a one-on-one lesson: 30-50 students in a class is not one-on-one. And while one can record the lesson with an iPhone for a classroom seat, it is not even close to being the same as a lesson filmed and created professionally with up close and really personal 4 different camera points of view (!!), in extremely detailed form, adding slow motion and repetition and alternate views. And yes, our students are able to review again and again any lessons, as much as they need, until they are satisfied.

What does $2800 pays for: to start part goes to the production of the video lessons themselves (needless to say), which are professionally done (same quality as the IndieGoGo film which hopefully everyone has seen). It will take years for us to recoup the cost of a single class. We do not ask our teachers to do this for free: we want some of the best teachers, and they deserve to be paid for their time and knowledge. This isn't the Red Cross. They are sharing their talent, technique and wisdom that they spent a lifetime acquiring. A sizable slice of the individual tuition goes to pay the teachers for the one-on-one time to teach (remember, 10 students means 250 hours of work per course for a teacher - a far cry for a normal college course where 30-50 students are taught at once). Add to it all the normal trappings of overhead and it should become clear that no one will make it rich here. Like, ever. If your math differs than mine then we could learn something that would be helpful to all of us.

Suzie loves calligraphy and design. She's been in the graphic design field as a business owner for nearly 30 years now: with her own graphic design firm in L.A., and running a luxury event invitation design and print shop in the San Francisco area. Her husband (me) did similar (product design company in Montreal). Hopefully there's enough knowledge and experience here to make this work to help and benefit most everyone.

Regarding the teacher credentials and students future titles: wow. What a hot button. That one seems to flare up emotions big time. There's no winning this one. Some say black, some say white. Some accuse us of being too American-centric (I guess having 3/4 of the faculty not being American is not enough), while others accuse us for using words like "faculty" itself. I'm afraid I can't address this one. We try to use the words and titles that are given to them, and I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I'll just say one thing: no one is raising an eyebrow at recognizing a student who earns a Master's degree in genetics (or art or philosophy for that matter) from any of thousands of colleges around the world.

Ink.Academy has a great many more classes are in the pipeline for the future. Including things like business management and graphic design and print layout: all applicable to many other classes we're planning to add such as sign painting, graffiti, glass/metal engraving and tattoo courses, properties of art materials, and more. Some people will have no interest in such classes. Some will. Combining some of these classes together, such as calligraphy, design and business management can make for a powerful combo for the right people. We'll keep working towards being worthy of the word Academy.

As usual, please understand that if none of these things is of interest to one person, it doesn't mean that the program is irrelevant or a bad thing for other people. Some will never warm up to the concept of online classes, no matter what. But it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing for someone else, or for everyone else!

Here's where I'm ending this: if anyone has a question about anything at all, please ask Suzie. My plea is more for those who feel a stronger emotional response (as "being concerned", or "being worried"). These emotions are real and we want to address them: there is truly something that triggered them. I'd like to invite anyone with a similar reaction to reach out to Suzie and share with her what worry there is, and see firsthand if you are right to be worried, or if it was all just a misconception. Then share it to the world.

God only know how much misinformation is flying around in the world (in general) nowadays. Lots of the most baseless content ends up being believed by enormous numbers of people--and believed blindly without "go to the source" confirmation. Let's try not to add to it, and let us all enjoy this wonderful world of calligraphy with what we all strive to create more elegantly: more beautiful communication.

cheers,

Serge (the hubby)

[Nickkih]

I couldn't agree more

[Ken Fraser]

Good grief: you'd think that calligraphy was teetering on the brink of extinction, judging by the messianic tone of this press release, and that no other educational bodies existed.  I'm well aware that I'm in the minority on this, but such puffery simply cannot go unchallenged.  Especially here, since the Flourish Forum is the first port of call for so many aspirant pen people.

One of the best ways of promoting calligraphy today would be to produce hi-quality reprints of some excellent books and/or materials from that time at different price points.This would allow people to benefit from close and careful study of the finest examples of calligraphy at their leisure, without the problems inherent with videos and internet communications. People in the past were able to achieve the greatest heights of skill by studying and working from books, and there is no reason why this cannot be done today.

It's not rocket science - why not just teach yourself, and save a lot of money.

[Brush My Fennec]

The ink academy has described, on it's indiegogo page, one of the people involved as a professor of calligraphy, but according to the website of the university he works at he is an assistant, not a professor. That could be excused on the grounds of hype and promoting your business, but it raises the question of what else is hype and whether or not it's right to describe someone as a professor when they are not a professor.

The problem with hype, press releases, self promotion &c. is that they produce a situation where many, but not all, people know what is being said isn't strictly truthful but you may be expected to dance around that and be unable to directly address it or else be accused of being negative, jealous &c. and the people who don't realize the hype and self-promotion is hype and self-promotion are set up for disappointment down the road if/when they do realise it.

[Nickkih]

I think the benefit of the doubt should be given in this situation, actually in every situation imo. You can't  assume that they purposely hyped or attempted to mislead. Concider for a moment that perhapes the person whom your talking about maybe just maybe he was just promoted to professor - and the university hasn't updated his title on the website? Why not ask Suzie or the professor in question? Why assume it's pure marketing? Again, I see the Ink Academy as such a positive in a "starving for knowledge" calligraphy community. The flourish forum became such a success because of that very thing, lovers of letters looking for knowledge to better their craft either for personal goals or professional ones. Ink academy in my view is the same breath of fresh air as The flourish forum.