Flourish Forum
General Categories => Open Flourish | General Discussion => Topic started by: Erica McPhee on September 08, 2015, 11:39:14 PM
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There have been several threads regarding proper posture and ergonomics and Jean made a great suggestion of creating a thread to discuss it that would be easily accessible. So please feel free to share any tips you have on proper posture and correct ergonomics to avoid injuries. :)
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1. Sitting on the edge of your chair helps you sit up straight (learned this in band class).
2. Michael Sull said in his seminar at the SF Pen Show that his penmanship teacher (the one who actually studied with Zaner and taught Mr. Sull Spencerian writing) insisted that part of his lessons consist of "shadowboxing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowboxing)" and other exercises to build upper body strength.
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I am so grateful for this thread! I've been taking the advice posted in other threads and this topic is so valuable for longevity and health. One of the biggest things that's been helping my shoulder pain is sitting higher up. I didn't realize how low my chair was until I started sitting atop a booster. Brings back my childhood restaurant days, but this time - no tears!
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This might help. It is a video for beginners by Harvest Crittenden of Acorn Arts. She was one of the amazing instructors at IAMPETH this year. Someone recommended it to me some time ago. She goes over a bit about posture and positioning and many other very important basics that are good fundamentals.
Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsE8qHphiGk
Hope this helps!
Kelly
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This might help. It is a video for beginners by Harvest Crittenden of Acorn Arts. She was one of the amazing instructors at IAMPETH this year. Someone recommended it to me some time ago. She goes over a bit about posture and positioning and many other very important basics that are good fundamentals.
Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsE8qHphiGk
Hope this helps!
Kelly
Harvest's demonstration for finding the proper height of the desk is excellent and I agree that it is essential to be sitting at the right height.
If you are short, and you raise yourself to the proper height, then you might find that your feet no longer reach the floor.
It will not work to just leave your feet dangling.
You need to find something to rest your feet on - like a low foot stool or a box.
If you have a pneumatic chair with a 4 or 5 wheel base, you may be able to rest your feet on the base-spokes that hold the wheels.
Harvest also mentions that she loads her broad edge nibs with a brush, rather than dipping, but dips pointed nibs.
I prefer to load pointed nibs as well, so you might want to try that. It may take longer but you don't have to stop and clean your nib as often.
While Harvest stresses the importance of not hunching over, I'd like to hammer that point harder.
She also talks about avoiding the death grip. Again....that is probably one of the most damaging things you can do to your entire body.
She is so gentle in how she explains everything....I'm not sure beginners understand how much damage you can do with a hunched over death grip.
Carpal tunnel, numb knuckles and fingers, tennis elbow, shoulder issues, neck and back issues.
After you do the damage, you can heal, but whichever part you damage will become your weak spot and you will be prone to aches and pains in that area forever.
Please heed her gentle warning....
Take breaks - every 15-20 minutes, get up , walk around, stretch. Look out the window.
Yoga is a great way to work out the knots.
Maybe someone can repost the information about the thing to sit on that someone recommended.
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I keep a box under my desk that I put my feet on or else they don't really touch the floor when I have my chair at the right height. I've never really cared about being on the shorter side until the difficulties I've had getting my chair to the right height lol. Doing calligraphy anywhere other than my desk is always a challenge.
In another thread talking about ergonomics (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3234.0 (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3234.0)) I talked about the Back Joy seat cushion that helps keeps you sitting up straight. This is a permanent staple at my desk.
I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.
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I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.
I've been loveloveloving my Yoke carrot oblique - the thicker grip absolutely helps me avoid the death grip and I've been able to eliminate my hand/wrist pain this way. Plus, it's pink 8)
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@Raayynuh
I have a couple obliques (Peerless and PIA Adjustable Hourglass), and I was pretty comfortable with them.
Then at the SF Pen Show, I tried one of Michael Sull's obliques, and my hand immediately felt more comfortable. It was a weird feeling. I did not have time to study why my hand felt more comfortable, but it did. So there is something valid about how your hand fits the holder, or the holder fits your hand. I also recognize that it is NOT a one size fits all. My hand is small and the holder that I liked could be uncomfortable to someone else with a larger hand or longer fingers. So ergo also has to fit YOUR hand.
Having said all that, I still like and use my much less expensive Peerless Oblique holder.
I guess I also like the variety, so I can choose which holder to use.
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I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.
I recently picked up a vintage Strahm holder and loved it so much I had to buy another. I had not used an ergonomic holder before, vintage or modern, so it was a bit of a revelation. I thought these Strahms might be too big for me as I have small hands but they just fit so well I now find it hard to go back to a typical thin hourglass-shaped holder. However, as Mr Yoke points out in his video on ergonomic holders, they are really designed for the original palm-down grip, not the modern rest-on-the-side-of-your-hand grip, so if this is going to be an issue for you, you will want to think carefully before you buy.
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I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.
I recently picked up a vintage Strahm holder and loved it so much I had to buy another. I had not used an ergonomic holder before, vintage or modern, so it was a bit of a revelation. I thought these Strahms might be too big for me as I have small hands but they just fit so well I now find it hard to go back to a typical thin hourglass-shaped holder. However, as Mr Yoke points out in his video on ergonomic holders, they are really designed for the original palm-down grip, not the modern rest-on-the-side-of-your-hand grip, so if this is going to be an issue for you, you will want to think carefully before you buy.
That's perfect Andy, thank you. Since I've started calligraphy I've been trying to stick to the original palm-down grip, and find it hard sometimes with the obliques shaped similarly to pens because my hand naturally wants to tilt the same way I write in my everyday writing. I've been looking into a holder that would help guide my hand more to the traditional grip. Good info!
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You’re welcome, Elaina.
Have you checked out Christopher Yoke's video on YouTube on ergonomic penholders? That would give you a good idea of which style to go for. It is possible to hold the Strahm in the modern grip, though it’s not designed for that, and the Gmeiner looks somewhat similar, so I’d say the Skeels is probably the one that most forces you to use the traditional hold. But drop Mr Yoke an email; I'm sure he’ll be happy to answer any questions you may have over which model is best. If you’re like me, you won’t want to go back to the Zanerian-style hourglass once you’ve used an ergonomic penholder. I’ve found the traditional stance has improved my writing too.
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I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.
I'll admit that I didn't like the ergo holder at first because the shape was too weird for my hand. It took me some time (and a lot of practice) before I learned how to use it properly. But I feel that it did help me with my "death grip". Nowadays, I start warming up with my Heebs holder and change to a different one if the mood strikes. Hope this helps!
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Which is the Heebs holder? I don’t know if I’ve seen that one of his.
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Which is the Heebs holder? I don’t know if I’ve seen that one of his.
He posts his work here: https://instagram.com/imheebs/ hand carved ergo oblique holders.
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Heebs does nice work. Are these designed for the traditional hold? I was surprised when I saw Jake Weidmann using one of his ergonomic holders in a video and realised that it was for the modern grip. Still, I guess the modern grip can benefit from an ergonomic holder too.
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Heebs does nice work. Are these designed for the traditional hold? I was surprised when I saw Jake Weidmann using one of his ergonomic holders in a video and realised that it was for the modern grip. Still, I guess the modern grip can benefit from an ergonomic holder too.
Jake supposedly designed his holder based on the study of Master's grips like Courtney's. I have one but it doesn't fit my bigger hand, so it isn't as one size fits all like he says.
Heebs and Connie design theirs to each person's hand which gives a better feel. I have both and I love them.
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Jake supposedly designed his holder based on the study of Master's grips like Courtney's.
Yes, I saw that on his website but as far as I can see it’s all just OTT marketing. I mean, he posts all these shots from Joe Vitolo’s site and old penmanship books showing the masters holding their pens and writes a lot about how great this pen is and how it’s a link between the masters and today, then he has a video showing him using it in the modern grip (ie, nothing like the holds shown in the pictures). Some of the comments rub me up the wrong way too, where he essentially runs down everybody else’s pens and makes out his is the be-all and end-all, and all for only $350. And what does ‘The dynamic ergonomic shape is derived from the stuff of legend as it dynamically emulates the grip of celebrated masters’ actually mean?
Nice to read good feedback on Heebs’s work. I’m not familiar with Connie’s. Do you have a link and can you post a picture of your holders? After getting my Strahms, I find it hard to go back to the PIA Hourglass, which until now was my favourite. I am considering getting a Skeels or Gmeiner replica by Christopher Yoke in the future, though. The Magnusson-style holders with lots of accent rings get all the attention but the ergonomic ones are, I think, the better holders.
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Jake supposedly designed his holder based on the study of Master's grips like Courtney's.
Yes, I saw that on his website but as far as I can see it’s all just OTT marketing. I mean, he posts all these shots from Joe Vitolo’s site and old penmanship books showing the masters holding their pens and writes a lot about how great this pen is and how it’s a link between the masters and today, then he has a video showing him using it in the modern grip (ie, nothing like the holds shown in the pictures). Some of the comments rub me up the wrong way too, where he essentially runs down everybody else’s pens and makes out his is the be-all and end-all, and all for only $350. And what does ‘The dynamic ergonomic shape is derived from the stuff of legend as it dynamically emulates the grip of celebrated masters’ actually mean?
Nice to read good feedback on Heebs’s work. I’m not familiar with Connie’s. Do you have a link and can you post a picture of your holders? After getting my Strahms, I find it hard to go back to the PIA Hourglass, which until now was my favourite. I am considering getting a Skeels or Gmeiner replica by Christopher Yoke in the future, though. The Magnusson-style holders with lots of accent rings get all the attention but the ergonomic ones are, I think, the better holders.
I mean if you want a no frills kind of holder for the most part, ergonomic ones really are the best. Not always the prettiest looking.
I do prefer Connie's slightly more as it's closer to the flange than heeb's in terms of grip, so my thumb rest pretty much on top of the flange where as heeb's is similarly styled to a Gmeiner. I also like the finger dip it has for the index finger. I believe her holder was modeled after her mentor's William Lilly's natural grip one.
I'll upload a photo when I get a chance, but I guess you can go to her website connie-chen.com to check them out for now.
The Skeel's holder has been intriguing me. I always thought it was like the Strahm holder until Chris uploaded his video about ergonomic holders and lo and behold it has a thumb indentation.
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Going back to Elaina's suggestion of the BackJoy - does anyone have any great adjustable chair recommendations? My husband has bought office chairs from Staples and is never happy - but the fantastically amazing ergo chairs are always super expensive! Where to look? Any brands or stores that stand out?
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I have a Herman Miller Aeron chair. They usually run 40-45% off sales a couple times a year. You can also find them used. Larger cities usually have businesses that specialize in used office furniture. Sometimes larger office furniture stores (not the big box stores) have a warehouse with great used furniture. I don't think Staples, etc carries Herman Miller. Yes, $500 is a lot for a chair, but, taking good care of your body is a wise investment. The chair will last a lifetime if you take care of it. I imagine it qualifies as a business expense....but check that out with someone who knows for sure.
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Thank you, Jean! Appreciate the advice, I'll look into this!
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I have a question, and I think this is the right place for it. I know that there is the 'traditional grip' advocated for use with a dip pen.
However is this grip effective when using a brush to letter? Or do you all use a different grip? (Hoping there is at least one person who practices both brush lettering and the traditional grip who can answer this. )
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IMHO, how you hold a brush for brush lettering depends on what style of lettering you are doing. There are sooooooooo many different styles of brush lettering. If I am doing something that follows the general form of copperplate, then, yes, my grip would be more traditional. But, with other styles - you get into a lot of *pen manipulation* or in this case, brush manipulation - where you change the grip depending on which strokes you are on.
The size you are writing would also influence how you held the brush. You can write much larger with brushes, so you might use whole arm movement. I think using whole arm movement might keep your grip in a more traditional orientation. For me, spending some time on brush lettering was a real help to all the other styles. It is another technique that helps you unlearn all your bad penmanship quirks.
So, to answer the question. Yes, I think the traditional grip is effective with brush lettering. But, it is not the only grip. I feel that way about using different grips with nibs, too. It's nice to be flexible and be able to try different combinations.
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Thanks Jean, that was exactly what I needed to know. :)
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There have been several threads regarding proper posture and ergonomics and Jean made a great suggestion of creating a thread to discuss it that would be easily accessible. So please feel free to share any tips you have on proper posture and correct ergonomics to avoid injuries. :)
This quote is in the hand of calligrapher, Tom Gourdie from "Handwriting for Today".
Admittedly, he was probably referring to Italic writing as, to the best of my knowledge, he didn't write flexible nib scripts. Nonetheless, it's an interesting statement, bearing in mind his revered reputation as an Italicist.
Incidentally, if you are interested in Italic Handwriting, then this book, written entirely in Italic, is well worth searching for.
(https://theflourishforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi226.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd289%2Fcaliken_2007%2FIMG%2520%2520400.jpg&hash=85ad65b012286bb28a715f4eeb7d0bb6)
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Here are some random thoughts on chairs:
- I like a steno/secretary style chair, one without arm rests. I found that the arm rest get in they way of positioning the chair best for writing. And this includes many of the newer short armrest chairs.
- Ideally, you want the chair and table to be adjustable in height. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Elaina where you need something under your feet, as you do not want your feet dangling in the air. I used to use old phone books under my feet :-)
- A gas piston for height adjustment can be critical. The old screw adjustment is OK, adjust once and leave it alone. But screws are impractical, if you have to change heights often like I do; one height for writing, another height for eating. My kitchen table chair is a steno chair, as I write at the kitchen table.
- As for the HM Aeron, they have 3 pan sizes, to accommodate different thigh lengths. For me, with a short thigh, the pan length is critical, too deep and the front of the pan pushes into the back of my calf cutting off blood flow to my feet, and just plain uncomfortable to sit in.
- Adjusting the tilt of the seat pan helps for some people. It simulates sitting on the front edge of the seat, as Elizabeth said. But this adjustment on some chairs is a PiA. My home office chair is an EXPENSIVE ergo chair, but the pan tilt is so difficult to use, that once adjusted I don't change it. And some chairs do not have this adjustment.
- I HIGHLY recommend a chair with at least 5 arms on the pedistal. It is more stable than a 4 arm pedistal. And even many of the lower priced chairs now have 5 arm pedistals.
- Match the casters to your floor; soft surface/carpet = hard caster, hard surface/wood/chair mat = soft rubber caster. Hard floor and hard caster = a chair that moves too easily, and could roll out from under you before you sit, causing you to fall onto the floor and injure yourself (seen that happen once too many times).
- When you go into the store to try a chair, do it at one of their desks. It is quite different to just sit in a chair, vs. sitting in a chair in the position of doing work/writing. The difference in position and posture makes a difference, a chair that feels good to sit in may not feel good to work in. When I sit, I use the backrest; when I am working/writing, I sit upright and forward and do not use the backrest.
- The backrest of some so called ergo chairs can be PAINFUL. It is how the backrest fits to YOUR back. Example, I have a lower bad back, and chairs with a pronounced lumbar curves HURT my back, I need a chair with little to no lumbar curve.
- If you get a chair with armrest, get one that has adjustable height arm rests. If the armrest is the wrong height, it can do more harm then no armrest at all. I have a chair that I had to raise the arm rest with pieces of wood, to get the arm rest to the proper height, for ME.
- Finally, most furniture salesmen and many so called ergo consultants do not know what they are really talking about. They learn one thing from going to a short class, and that is it, and now they are "experts." I've had many of those so called ergro consultants constantly recommending chairs with a pronounced lumbar curve to me, when I know from experience that those chairs end up hurting my back. But no, they insist that I need a chair with a lumbar curve, because that is what they learned.
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That is amazing Gary! Thank you so so much!
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That video on the first page posted worked wonders for me. Sitting at the right height opened up the space to actually move my arm. My flourishes went from jagged and pointy to smooth and flowing. Thanks for posting!
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I really need to work on mines. I start out proper, but usually end up leaning right over my work and end up with a sore neck/back.
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I tend to cross my ankles when sitting. I have to remind myself not to do this and to make sure my feet flat on the floor when I do calligraphy. My writing suffers when I change the position of my feet from flat on the floor to crossed. I'm guessing that my body isn't as stable as when my feet are flat on the floor.
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I don't have much time for so-called "ergonomic" penholders as I feel that they vary too much to be of good general use, and would inevitably require some modification to the tried and tested traditional handgrip. Also, I have to admit that I find it very difficult to enthuse over something which has all the aesthetic appeal of a little piece of distorted driftwood. :P
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I make both 'normal' and ergonomic oblique pens, so I have no bias from that regard. But I will say that I , personally, find ergonomic pens much more comfortable. However, I've always found that my fingers start to hurt if I use a normal pen for too long, so maybe I'm a bit odd :o I would suggest that if you're perfectly happy and comfortable with a normal pen then stick with it, but if, like me, you find a normal pen starts to hurt after a while, then an ergonomic may be of benefit.
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... I find it very difficult to enthuse over something which has all the aesthetic appeal of a little piece of distorted driftwood. :P
Have you seen Salman's, Ken?
I can't help thinking that for the word "ergonomic" to have any real meaning there has to be an element of tailoring to the individual user: after all, I have big carpenter's hands, so what suits me probably wouldn't work for Donald Trump. ;)
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I am aware of several manufacturers of these weird implements.
As no two hands are the same, I don't see how they would work - unless they were made on a one-off basis to suit each individual. It strikes me as a typical, shortcut attempt for those who think that the magic lies in the tool and not the hand.
As one with an interest in calligraphy; friends, family and acquaintances already think of me as an odd fruitcake, and if I were seen attempting to write with a piece of strangely, contorted wood, the impression would be complete. :P
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It strikes me as a typical, shortcut attempt for those who think that the magic lies in the tool and not the hand.
Harsh, that, but I don't buy into notions of tool magic either. It is, however, worth getting something that you like - you seem to have settled on Brian's holders, whilst Melanie Jane is happier making something to suit herself. My favourite pens are made by geese. Doesn't make much odds in the end really, does it?
I predicted a while ago that ergonomic holders would become popular soon, because people are always looking for something new and different to spend money on. What will never change is that the holder is the least important consideration, and the physical things which do make a difference are paper, nibs and ink (in that order if you ask me). :)
I mentioned Salman's ergonomic holders in particular because they're little artworks in their own right - definitely nothing like driftwood. Far more of a challenge to make than a turned holder in my opinion.
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I mentioned Salman's ergonomic holders in particular because they're little artworks in their own right - definitely nothing like driftwood. Far more of a challenge to make than a turned holder in my opinion.
To each, his own - as ever ;D
This search for the "Holy Grail" of penholders is interesting, but ultimately a bit pointless IMO.
Whilst on tour, the saxophonist Stan Getz found a mouthpiece which suited his embouchure. The make and model became known, and they quickly sold out worldwide as saxophonists everywhere tried to emulate the wonderful, distinctive sound he produced. Needless to say no one succeeded and the reason was obvious. The magic wasn't in the mouthpiece but inside himself.
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Whilst on tour, the saxophonist Stan Getz found a mouthpiece which suited his embouchure. The make and model became known, and they quickly sold out worldwide as saxophonists everywhere tried to emulate the wonderful, distinctive sound he produced. Needless to say no one succeeded and the reason was obvious. The magic wasn't in the mouthpiece but inside himself.
Darn. Are you implying that even if I buy a bunch of Gillott Principalities and write with them, I won't write like Madarasz? It was his favorite nib, after all. ::)
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I have decided not to invest in a pair of Usain Bolt endorsed running shoes.
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Another problem with the death grip is that you can create some severe problems in your thumb, wrist, elbow, shoulder, neck, or back. The war-stories that you hear from the old-timers should inspire you to lighten up. My personal war-story is that I developed a tennis elbow and had to completely stop writing for several weeks and wait for it to heal. Ever since then, if I am not careful, it will flare up.
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I tend to cross my ankles when sitting. I have to remind myself not to do this and to make sure my feet flat on the floor when I do calligraphy. My writing suffers when I change the position of my feet from flat on the floor to crossed. I'm guessing that my body isn't as stable as when my feet are flat on the floor.
Todd
About your crossing your legs. This could be a couple/few things. Here are some ideas based on what I know about me.
1- a blood circulation problem in your leg.
2- muscle twitchy. Your leg muscles wants to move, and sitting motionless for a long time makes the muscles 'twitchy.' By crossing your leg you put pressure on the muscles, so they don't twitch.
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I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.
I've been steering more towards ergonomic holders because my grip is a little bit different and I have small hands. Not all holders are comfortable for me.
I purchased an ergonomic holder from Lindsey Hook, and it is my favorite holder right now. She crafts pens for each individual by asking for measurements, assessing your grip, the way you hold your pen, and the angle in which your nib touches the paper. It fits my hand perfectly and I'm able to work without getting calluses on my fingers. It has been the most comfortable holder that I've purchased thus far and highly recommend it. However, I haven't tried other pens before, so I can't attest to other ergonomic pen, but I love Lindsey's pens and her work! :)
I've been working with Heebs for my next ergo pen. I'll let you know what I think of it once the jury is in on that verdict. :)
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Hi Flourish friends,
I have an unexpected injury. I'm a righty, but I recently developed tendonitis in my LEFT hand. I think it's because when I write, I hold down my paper with my left hand (perhaps my left hand is taking on the death grip for the right, haha). The pinky-side of my wrist was so stiff, I was in a splint for most of January and February.
Anyone have tips for what to do with their non-dominant hand while writing? I have zero intentions of giving up calligraphy, so I want to be able to write comfortably and safely for the long haul.
Going forward I'm absolutely going to be more intentional about practicing better posture (just watched Harvest's video posted in this thread), but I'm interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this.
Thanks!
Christen
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Hello everybody!
I have just watched Harvest her video on pointed pen basics, that is shared on the first page of this thread.
In the beginning she mentions that pointed pen calligraphy is done with the paper flat on the table and that broad-edge calligraphy is mostly done in an angle, on a slanted surface.
What is the reason for this difference?
I am only doing pointed pen calligraphy and tried working on both a flat and a slanted surface. And I feel that I prefer working on a slanted surface, as it helps me keep my posture better.
But maybe that is because I didn't have the setting of my table & chair totally right.
With Harvest her tips, I will certainly try to see if I can get my table & chair in a better position and see how writing with the paper flat on the table will go then.
Are there more pointed pen calligraphers here who prefer writing on a slanted surface?
Regards,
Simone
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Hello @Simone Lettering :)
There's a good reason for this, but the first thing to say, as ever, is if something works for you it can't be wrong, can it? This area of posture and ergonomics is open to a lot of personal variation, and so long as you aren't giving yourself back ache or carpal tunnel syndrome you should trust your instincts.
With that out of the way, the business of flat table for pointed pen and slanted board for edged is largely to do with ink flow rather than anything else. Because of the way a pointed nib works and the way ink will cling to it, some help from gravity is necessary. Some people will use a tilted board (which can be more comfortable), but it tends to be a matter of a couple of degrees or so. If you decide to use a quill for copperplate or Spencerian, you might find that a steeper angle is better because ink flows more readily from a feather than from steel. The typical set up for edged pen is a board tilted to 45° or more - this is to slow down the flow and prevent pooling. In this case the pen is not far off horizontal.
I usually write on a flat table, but most of the Spencerian writers I've met (all of whom are way better than me) favour a board on the table with a thin lath across the back edge to give a very slightly angled surface. You are right to identify the relationship between chair and table as being very important, but a gently tilted surface can give you a bit of extra leeway.
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Hi @AndyT !
Thank you so much for the explanation!
And yes, you are right that it is also a personal thing, as we all have different bodies.
I will see what works best for me in the long run.
So far I didn't experience any severe ink flow problems with working on a slanted surface.
But when it does happen once, I now at least know what might also be the problem ;D
Have a nice day! I hope the weather in the UK is like here today: sunny and quite warm 8)
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To help my hand and forearm from getting tired and a little bit cramped while doing calligraphy, I've been doing hand strengthen exercises with a Prohands "Grip-Master" hand exerciser http://www.prohands.net/products/ (http://www.prohands.net/products/)since July. It has helped me immensely as I can write for much longer sessions and with a lot more finesse and control.
My theory of strengthening my hand for aiding my calligraphy was confirmed when I read in the August, 2017 issue of Pen World magazine article by Barry Gabay about "Nibmeister" Greg Minuskin when he said he learned to strengthen his hands from a micro surgeon to keep a steady hand.
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To help my hand and forearm from getting tired and a little bit cramped while doing calligraphy, I've been doing hand strengthen exercises with a Prohands "Grip-Master" hand exerciser
How long have you been using it? Did you have to get a stronger one after a while?
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I've been using it since mid July of 2017.
I started with the Black version slowly, a few reps here and there until I could build up to 15 reps x 3.
Did recently buy the stronger Pro Extra Heavy model and can do 15 reps x 3. I believe there are higher strength models, but will stay where I'm at and maintain strength with daily reps.
While doing research, it seems best to start with a lower strength model and build from there. More reps with lighter tension is better than lower reps with higher tension. Purchased the Black model before I knew they came in different strengths (each strength level is a different color), other wise I would have started with a lower strength model.
They are inexpensive. At Dick's Sporting Goods the models up to the Black are less than 15 dollars. The Pro version is 20 dollars. Well worth the money.
As stated before, my calligraphy has really improved since building strength in my hands and forearms.
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Am I really the only person who lies on the floor?
Perhaps it is from having 'enjoyed' target rifle shooting, but I find I get most stability and consistency from lying prone on a nice soft but shallow plush carpet and arranging my accoutrements in an arc in front of me and with either one of my legs pulled up to the side and bent at the knee.
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Wow @Greenman - that sounds like a yoga position! ;D It would hurt my neck I think to try to write like that. But I’m going to give it a go just to see what it’s like! ;D
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Sometimes I like a pillow under the upper part of my chest just below the armpits, and sometimes I like to have a pillow under both my chest and belly... but I have a fairly flat chest and belly and also a dodgy lower back, so what works for me may not work for others.
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im gonna pass. ;D For ornamental penmanship the arm cannot be planted while writing so i'd have to support my upper body with one arm the entire time and i have enough back pain as it is :P
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You know himasf, I had good days and I had bad days, but besides when I could barely get myself in a car seat let alone manage the pain enough to drive, there were a couple of years where I really didn't have much comfort seated for any length of time.
I don't have what I would regard as a serious back injury, and I am very much all but over it now, I merely sustained multiple short term injuries to vaguely the same areas of my back a few times over the period of a couple of decades, and each sucessive occurrence exacerbated the previous acquired weaknesses further.
My posture for calligraphy isn't always the same, and i do regularly sit at a desk to work, but I do genuinely feel more comfortable for longer lying down - never mind the fact there is almost unlimited space to arrange my tools easily to hand around me!
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Oh, I don't doubt it's more comfortable for you.
I wish it were the case for me too 'coz I practice for hours at a time and it gets uncomfortable sitting but for the style of calligraphy I do working in prone position would compromise both the technique and comfort.
I wonder who else here writes on the floor tho..
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I like to lay on the floor to write normally - like with normal penmanship, but that only works because I can lay my head down (on the floor or the pillow) and the change in view doesn’t matter because my regular penmanship doesn’t need to be near perfect.
I couldn’t manage doing calligraphy- I would need to hold my head up and that tends to be uncomfortable to me after a while.
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I would need to hold my head up and that tends to be uncomfortable to me after a while.
Exactly. For me that means up on my elbows to see the calligraphy straight on, almost like doing a backbend (which compresses the lumbar spine).
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Jean Wilson, I can’t thank you enough for posting the video from Harvest Crittenden! It has given me exactly what I most needed to forge ahead with Salman Khattak’s Copperplate Tutorials. I’ve been a broad pen calligrapher for 40 years, and switching over to a pointed nib and oblique holder is so very challenging for me. I’m used to a particular grip, and a slanted board (I have a custom made slant light table/drafting table for my wheelchair), and I realize now, after watching that video, that I have to make some serious changes in order to move forward with the pointed pen. I just began practicing on a flat table after watching that video, and that alone made a HUGE difference. I also began using the coated playing card she suggested, and that combined with the flat table gave me the ability to move my whole arm, and not just my wrist. What a breakthrough! I’m still slip-sliding away, with my pen feeling like I’m driving on glare ice, and I know it will take time to gain some control. But I can now already make ascenders and descenders that are not wobbly, because I have a more ergonomic approach. Now, to work on changing my grip from broad pen to a pointed pen grip, so I won’t be “white knuckling” it. While nothing is easy for me, it’s immensely satisfying just to see the change already, thanks to you taking the time to post that marvelously helpful video. THANK YOU!!!
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Erica, I can’t thank you enough for starting this thread. It’s been so incredibly helpful! It fits in so perfectly with the tutorials I’m working on of Salman Khattik’s Copperplate. I had reached a wall, and though I could SEE what I needed to change, I had no idea HOW to change and get the strokes I needed. This thread enabled me to break through that frustrating barrier, and begin the crawl forward. Thank you so much for this and all the wonderful things I’m learning here in your forum. It truly boggles my mind! What an absolute goldmine of information and assistance it has been to discover both IAMPETH and THE FLOURISH FORUM at the same time. I feel so grateful to have landed here, and very much “at home.” Your members are warm and caring, so helpful and welcoming to newcomers. Thank you for all you do, and for the magnificent gathering of calligraphers you have joined together! My Cancelleresca Corsiva mentor, Patricia Buttice, called this camaraderie “Shared Enlightenment.” She was so right.