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Messages - Zivio

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Spencerian Script / Re: Spencerian letter
« on: April 27, 2024, 12:18:28 AM »
This is great! I love your creativity.

Tools & Supplies / Re: Troublemaker - Polar Lights
« on: April 19, 2024, 11:17:48 AM »

What a most thoughtful and memorable graduation gift!

Contrary to Wm. Shakespeare’s assertion that only breed may make defense ‘gainst Time’s scythe, this heirloom will live on through generations of that (now) young woman’s family.

Your art and calligraphy is inspirational! What is the size of this portrait?

Always a sincere pleasure to see your work.

… I am impatient (let's say I 'was").  Well, I'm getting back in the saddle and I figured what better place to come for validation vs judgment…

Oh, you’ve got a lot of validation from me, dear soul!  Though now an official senior citizen, there is an internal part of me I call “I Want It Now” that has tormented me from youth. “It” has usually meant musical, calligraphic or any other creative skill.  And it has often caused needless frustration or giving up. No judgment here!

Several years ago I read Carol Dweck’s most excellent book, “Mindset:  The New Psychology of Success” to which I attribute having stuck with learning and practicing Spencerian script now for three and a half years. Don’t misunderstand me, I don’t “have it” yet, but the old me would’ve given up after a month.

Wishing you joys and inspiration with your upcoming classes! 

Niiiice! The size of those make my carrot holder look wimpy! 

Spencerian Script / Re: Victor Horta and Spencerian
« on: March 26, 2024, 11:09:46 PM »
Gorgeous design and spaces! Thanks for sharing this Hans!

Spencerian Script / Re: Succession of m’s and n’s and of u’s
« on: March 11, 2024, 11:02:57 PM »
@Vintage_BE, you had me at:

... hellishly difficult ...

This is my experience, especially since I'm an intransigent "arm writer."  But then, everything about learning this art has been extremely challenging for me.

Spencerian Script / Re: My Signature
« on: March 11, 2024, 10:49:07 PM »
@Zivio, have you also seen the Stephen Ziller manual, Book #3, on “Card Writing” from the At Home With Artistic Penwork series? It gives some signature examples (most using Spencerian) and short notes on each. The notes might not be instructive enough for what you are wanting right now but the examples might be helpful.
Also, Book #2 “Artistic Writing” shows various connections of two or three capitals for practice.
Glad the Sull book has helped.

Oh! Yes, I actually have both of those Ziller manuals but lost track of them a bit since they are in electronic format on my iPad. I'd actually copied and pasted the capital "joins" from #2 into a more easily accessible document, and they had been helpful! I had not used or looked at #3 for quite awhile. Just taking a look again now and there are tons of great examples to study there!

Your heads up on this is very much appreciated -- THANKS!

Spencerian Script / Re: My Signature
« on: March 10, 2024, 11:15:29 AM »
Dear @Ken Fraser, this post is very timely and instructive for me!

I have been enthralled by “signature writing” of The Golden Age of Penmanship from the beginning of my own Spencerian journey just a few years ago, but it has been way beyond my skill level. 

Until recently, the only description of the technique I’d encountered was in Michael & Debra Sull’s “Learning to Write Spencerian Script,” where they but touch briefly on the topic. Michael’s newest “Sull’s Manual of Advanced Penmanship” goes into more detail. In particular, he describes three approaches to joining the majuscules: overlapping joins, natural joins and direct joins. This alone demystified what had otherwise been incomprehensible to me, and I’ve now enjoyed studying historical examples with “new eyes” to identify these techniques and understand the process a bit better. I have also just begun putting in some daily time sketching ideas for my own signature which also begins with a “K” (initials “KAS”).  So far I’ve seen far too few examples with “K” as the starting letter, and I like your treatment! 

It will yet be a while before I’m satisfied with the flow and balance of my own creation, and then a longer while before I can execute it, but I’m now feeling as though it will be possible.

There will not be sufficient years of practice remaining for me ever to gain your level of experience and skill, but I do continue to learn from your virtuosity and am grateful you share it here with us!

Introductions / Re: Hi everybody
« on: February 25, 2024, 11:22:55 PM »
Welcome, @mkmakam!  You will indeed fine valuable help here, both through scanning the archives as well as posting any questions you may have. 


Introductions / Re: hello from a new and uncertain member
« on: February 25, 2024, 11:20:04 PM »
@total_newbie  Welcome! I agree with Erica that you most definitely should be here. The interests, level of skill, time available for practice, curiosity, etc. is as varied as the 10,000 some odd members here. And speaking for myself, you'll find some odd members.  ;D

Please do feel free to post questions or ideas or whatever it is about handwriting that interests you!


Kind Critique / Re: Nay worries - I can take it.
« on: February 25, 2024, 12:09:52 AM »
... Also, don't forget, you will go through periods where you feel like your work is looking great and then all of a sudden nothing looks good. That is a big part of the learning process ...

OK, so I needed this. 

Spencerian Script / Re: Succession of m’s and n’s and of u’s
« on: February 21, 2024, 12:45:47 PM »
I might add that in the “ Spencerian Standard Writing” exemplar, it bears out your thought that the connecting stroke between letters might be a bit steeper. My feeling is that the naturally occurring compound curve between such letters requires some change in the geometry.

This also shows the 1-1/4 space between letters, except when going into the lowercase a, g, q, etc.

Spencerian Script / Re: Succession of m’s and n’s and of u’s
« on: February 21, 2024, 12:26:23 PM »
I do not know the exact answers to your specific questions. However, I have found David DiGiovanni’s breakdown of the geometry of the minuscule “m” here to be very instructive. Yes, he is writing with his arm in this  series but that does not change the geometry.

I have often thought about going to my “local” elementary school and asking if I could offer an after-school class (non-credit) on handwriting…

This is a splendid idea in many respects!

  • Volunteering is a wonderful offering of your time, interest and energies!
  • Children learn so much from the adult humans in their lives and enjoy the personal connection with them whether they be family, teachers or friends!
  • This would open your own life to, no doubt, very interesting connections with younger minds and hearts!
  • I’d already mentioned my thoughts about just the value for children to be exposed to a broad array of experience and interests! While you may downplay your own abilities in everyday handwriting/penmanship, you are likely well ahead of many teachers who have done no calligraphy at all and are tasked to teach. As an extra-curricular activity, you would be attracting those children who have at least some interest … and think of their little minds being blown if/when you do have opportunity to talk about the chirographic arts! Somewhere on Jean Wilson’s blogs she had presented a questionnaire and published answers regarding how people had originally found their interest. For so many of them, something just clicked when learning to write in elementary school. Who knows what you might spark?!

@AnasaziWrites posted a WSJ article about California’s new legislation requiring cursive handwriting instruction in public schools beginning January 02024:

Cursive is Back

California has joined 22 other states in the union to have fully mandated instruction, but there are some differences. Most of the other states have the requirement to teach by grades 3, 4 or 5.  Califonia’s, so far, is the only one requiring it in grades 1 through 6. Also, unlike the other states, California’s law cites teaching of cursive or joined italics.

I’m of two minds on the topic:

(1) The forces of technological change in communications are just too powerful to be overcome by merely requiring children to learn this in a few elementary school grades. My sense is that handwriting, sadly, will eventually die except as an art form, and mostly already has.

(2) As with giving children opportunities to learn and explore art, music, sports, vocational studies, etc., it is a wonderful thing to expose them to cursive writing. There will be some who find a great interest in it and learn to enjoy seeing historical and everyday handwritten communications, as I do, and even decide to practice it.

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