Author Topic: end of word extension  (Read 883 times)

Offline Miranda_J

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end of word extension
« on: June 24, 2022, 06:25:54 PM »
hello all

I just started to let my child write spencerian month ago, i follow the spencerian script each letter, I fond in the end of word sometimes has extension curve for example on y, g  , s etc... the end of word letter extend the curve up or down on top of bottom the word your wrote.

is this part of the style on spencerian? when to use it? is it when ever i feel like it, or on the end of sentence or paragraph ?


D B Holtz

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2022, 11:09:02 AM »
It certainly can be used in Spencerian.  Have a look at

https://archive.org/details/NewSpencerianCompendium/page/n133/mode/2up?view=theater

especially the examples on pages 97-104, along with the rest of the book.  I think they are entirely optionsal; I only use them at the end of sentences.

HTH,
DB

Offline Daniel McGill

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2022, 01:25:17 PM »
hello all

I just started to let my child write spencerian month ago, i follow the spencerian script each letter, I fond in the end of word sometimes has extension curve for example on y, g  , s etc... the end of word letter extend the curve up or down on top of bottom the word your wrote.

is this part of the style on spencerian? when to use it? is it when ever i feel like it, or on the end of sentence or paragraph ?

First, let me extended my pride for you teaching your child Spencerian. It warms me to know you have such an admiration of the script.

My thoughts on the ending “flourish” is the same as stated above. It was something that was done by penmen to add a little excitement and personality to an otherwise rigid script. With that in mind, it is by no means mandatory, and is down to how you may feel in the moment.

Something I will say is that, in terms of education, these flourishes should be avoided at all cost, even punished (gently, of course) in their use. The script’s fundamental forms and rhythm must be established and maintained to a proficient level before any of them should be even thought about.

My best!

Dan.


Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 04:32:09 PM »
Fabulous resource posted by DB! Thank you!

And I agree with Dan - best to hold off on teaching anything beyond fundamentals for now as it tempts the hand to dance away. :D

On another note, I just purchased 8.8 ounces of maple sugar for $11.99. Compared to the maple sugar at $0.15 / pound, I paid $21.76 per pound!  :o
Warm Regards,
Erica
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Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2022, 04:33:08 PM »
Lastly, those types of end flourishes are typically used at the end of a sentence.  ;)
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Erica
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Offline Miranda_J

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2022, 07:55:40 PM »
hello all

I just started to let my child write spencerian month ago, i follow the spencerian script each letter, I fond in the end of word sometimes has extension curve for example on y, g  , s etc... the end of word letter extend the curve up or down on top of bottom the word your wrote.

is this part of the style on spencerian? when to use it? is it when ever i feel like it, or on the end of sentence or paragraph ?
Something I will say is that, in terms of education, these flourishes should be avoided at all cost, even punished (gently, of course) in their use. The script’s fundamental forms and rhythm must be established and maintained to a proficient level before any of them should be even thought about.

My best!

Dan.
thanks for your input, I think you are right, I should have let child have solid foundation before free of their handwriting. cheers

Offline jeanwilson

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2022, 08:04:16 AM »
For what it's worth - there is a compromise when kids discover flourishing and want to try it.
It is wonderful practice - to make the flourishing strokes as borders or other decorative elements - but not attached to the letters.
Kids a more than willing to keep the flourishing and the lettering separate at the beginning.

To deny kids the fun of dancing with the pen until they achieve some arbitrary *mastery of the basics* can be so discouraging that they give up.
Encouraging the study of the flourishing strokes is a perfect counterpoint to the regimented lettering.

Every kid is different and will progress at a different rate. Their interest may ebb and flow - if they lose interest in Spencerian - they might want to try something else. The Speedball Textbook is a wonderful way to let them explore many options - and they may find themselves coming back to styles that seemed too hard when they were younger.

People my age - especially the ones who learned penmanship from nuns - recall what a unpleasant experience it was for some people. Everyone was forced to follow the same path - and some ended up with beautiful penmanship and others were filled with resentment - which is unfortunate.
It would be a shame to squash an interest in penmanship by not allowing the student to explore the decorative aspect.

I will look for the examples I have of Spencerian borders - and add a link.
Maybe someone has some simple bird flourishes for younger students that they could post.

Here is a link to a cupcake that would be so much fun for a kid to try -

http://pushingtheenvelopes.blogspot.com/2020/02/hb-to-mr-wilson-from-kater.html

Learning how to make symmetrical motions is good for building muscle memory.

Offline jeanwilson

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2022, 08:15:06 AM »
Flowers and leaves - another way to practice flourishing - but not connecting them to letters.

The first envelope at this link has a lovely little flowery motif.

https://www.theglampad.com/2022/04/letter-writing-and-the-changing-face-of-stamp-collecting.html

IG is full of fun decorative elements - this is just the first one that popped up when I did a search for *flourishing.*

https://www.instagram.com/theletteringpad/
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 01:26:18 PM by jeanwilson »

Offline Zivio

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2022, 07:59:05 PM »
... Their interest may ebb and flow - if they lose interest in Spencerian - they might want to try something else ...

Seems to me I've encountered a number of Flourish Forum members commenting on the itch to learn other scripts and styles!  But I think this is do more to finding, not losing interest!   ;D   
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Offline jeanwilson

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 07:31:16 AM »
Exactly!
This is why I encouraged people who felt like it after learning how a broad edge nib works and how a pointed nib works to just try every style in the Speedball Textbook - on their own - between classes.
Often times people would find one style that just seemed to feel better than the others - and that often led to better progress.

Very few people are drawn to uncial as a first style - but it's a much better first style for the broad edge nib than italic. It helps the student learn how the nib makes the various shapes. So many people think italic is good for a beginning style - and it really isn't - because of the angles of each stroke as well as the degree of slant.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2022, 06:52:45 AM by jeanwilson »

Offline Miranda_J

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2023, 01:13:18 AM »
It certainly can be used in Spencerian.  Have a look at

https://archive.org/details/NewSpencerianCompendium/page/n133/mode/2up?view=theater

especially the examples on pages 97-104, along with the rest of the book.  I think they are entirely optionsal; I only use them at the end of sentences.

HTH,
DB

I have checked those pages, but I just wonder how you come up with this end sentence flourish? and of course those stroke have no rule, but how I can get sort of sense on come up with those style ?  any adivse is appreciated.
thanks

Offline Zivio

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Re: end of word extension
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2023, 04:21:48 PM »

… of course those stroke have no rule, but how I can get sort of sense on come up with those style?

Greetings, @Miranda_J -

First, I will offer my disclaimer that I still consider myself at the beginner stage of learning Spencerian — especially flourishing! But I do feel qualified to offer my personal experience that may be helpful:

I, too, have been very interested in those “exit flourishes,” and I want to develop the more ornamental style of OP (ornamental penmanship) Spencerian script.

What I have learned, so far, mainly by examining many different examples of historical documents and penmanship manuals of the time, that flourishes are very much a matter of the penman’s personal taste.  But in addition to the vast variety of flourishes to be found, I have seen that many are similar, or appear to have been influenced by a certain “standard.”

As you say, “there is no ‘rule’” and I completely agree! The only restriction, if there is one, is to strive for flourishes that are as aesthetically pleasing as possible.  Yes, what pleases one person may be different for another (“beauty is in the eye of the beholder”) but there are common practices that will support this: a sense of balance, choice of shading options, preserving the legibility of the text, etc.

How to go about coming up with the flourishes?  What has worked, is working, with me is to find lots of examples online or in books of the variety of treatments. Discover for yourself which suit your personal fancy and appear the most interesting or beautiful to your eye. For me, I tend to enjoy the more restrained, or downplayed flourishes. For another person it may be the more ornate, the better!  Nobody can decide this for you.  I make screenshots of those that appeal to me and capture them in a single Word document or whatever software tool you have available for future reference.  Besides finding what you like, you will likely begin developing a “sense” of how different flourishes are used under different conditions or needs. From there you will have a great start for not only understanding “how it works” but “what will work best for you.”

I could provide links to some great online sources, (many can be found on the forum) but instead I suggest this Google search:

ornamental penmanship archive.org

Archive.org is an AMAZING resource for free downloads and/or loans of some remarkable penmanship content!  With the above search you will find a number of the best copywrite free original textbooks from “The Golden Age of Penmanship!”  Besides finding many examples of flourishing treatments, you will also find lessons on how to create them! 

I won’t go into how to learn to make them here — plenty of resources on this very forum for that! As a beginner myself in flourishing, though, I will say that some basic “figure 8” drills have been most helpful for developing skill in making smooth lines. From there, for me, it has been mainly a process of copying the flourish I want to learn, FIRST IN PENCIL, many repetitions, and comparing my attempts closely with my exemplar. Also helpful is to just learn one or two simple ones to begin, and start using them often until they become very familiar before adding another to the repertoire. Having a solid foundation first will make every subsequent flourish all that much easier to learn! It isn’t a race … begin slowly.

Hope this helps, and wishing you best of success in your and/or your children’s progress!

˜Karl

« Last Edit: November 14, 2023, 04:28:33 PM by Zivio »
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