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Messages - Cyril Jayant

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Tools & Supplies / History about Joseph Gillott.
« on: July 12, 2021, 05:40:45 PM »
I think it gives you some fascination to know about  this man who was the pioneer pen maker in the history.
I hope this very knowledgeable history will  give you inspirations to your learning calligraphy and hand lettering.

Hello Erica,
It was a once in a life time buying. very rare find. (it was a steal too 8) paid only 21 )
"Gillott 303''  in a general antique sales Pack???? No way... which I never believed it until it came to my door.
I was happy to see the Mapping pens too that belongs to the same time. Those nibs are  hand- grinded too which is a bit unusual.

I'll post few works when they are done. :)

By the way you remember your old thread about writing miniature envelopes exchange with very minuscule lettering ?

So  I believe Micheal used a 290/291 "pen upside down" to write his masterpieces on those  envelopes!!!
Me I am happy and capable,  only to just jot down few words.  :-\ nothing special or anything near to that conceptual writing he did. But it is a lovely pen worth trying at very slow space.

Recently I bought few of those Nibs and there was a straight  holder too with that lot.

I have a second photo showing some holders that fits those MAPPING pens- 290-291/292 AND 659 C-QUIL Nibs. They are lovely for drawing and some writing too. I love them.

Tools & Supplies / Re: Vintage Pen
« on: July 01, 2021, 08:23:00 AM »
I can see the crack and it is a very fortunate one. As it is down in the bottom it will not stress to come further on normal writing.

Only If you do use it as a dip pen nib .. like in calligraphy  using a pointed  pen. Then the pressure will come into the nib to extend the crack further.
I believe that crack has a considerable  support from the feed and the section  to go in for use for some times.

I have few Mabie pen  with cracked nibs. Funnily one pen writes with a light hand like a brush pen with exaggerated flex due to the crack. What you can do is start using the original nib and keep looking a  replacement nib. When you find a nib then try it. ( finding  a good nib in Ebay is luck . It can only  happen only if you seek that luck too)
Perhaps you can try a Swan -Mabie Todd- no2 nib. That nib is in same quality  as the waterman nibs.  (both nibs are rare category under vintage. but possible to find )

Even if you use this pen as a dip pen never use SUMI / permanent  pigment  inks (Ex.Sailor ) or Inda ink with this pen. If you forget to rinse the ink after use it will clog and stain the nib and Feed.

It is great to see those beautiful writing.
Can you think a mail will have the same appreciation after another 50- 100 years .
Will it last so long for some one to pay and download as a vintage mail file.
Oh ;D... there is something too what computer/ programme  will be able to unzip and read the scripted message ?

Tools & Supplies / Re: Vintage Pen
« on: June 25, 2021, 05:28:17 PM »
I have also few points to continue your restoring. Just few cents but could be useful to you as a new  user like you.
K- 2 has given the best instruction and you have done the harder part. So rest is easy. I can tell you few more tips to clean the nib. without an ultrasonic cleaner. Once the nib is out you can brush the nib with a tooth brush and using tooth paste it makes very shiny . Those old ink gunk disappear with the ultrasonic frequency vibrations. So dose with a brushing with tooth paste or ( polishing paste called  Simichrome polish) but is not necessary. So washing  off the nib and Feed after  polishing with  tooth paste water will make them more clean and shiny. ( But toothpaste is not recommended by restores and my disclaimer here is I use it sparingly for VERY GUNKY NIB AS RUSTED DIP NIBS SO I CAN USE THEM WITHOUT THROWING AWAY) You can Flush the nib slit with a shim ( or a razor blade if it is very necessary ) Your pen seems to have an oblique nib and it seems there were so many oblique  nibs originally those days. I don't agree this pen became an oblique  by using so long. Fo that if you look at the tines and the tines are warned out as oblique they I guess K-2 is right . If the pen write well it is very beautiful and fun to write with an Oblique nib. I have several  vintage oblique. It is not easy to find a waterman nib to this pen and it is never the same quality. It is the most costliest nib to get. Some times you have to buy a whole pen for a nib you are looking for. 
 You can use the 70% alcohol with a cotton sob to remove Gunked ink. I do it most of the time. Never use for soaking  in alcohol but to quick wipe. You can use a long tipped cotton sob or a rolled up kitchen towel soaked with alcohol to remove all older in the body /Barrel. Never put that part in water and as your pen has an overlay silver clad around the body the water will case more problem. Older materials they used for the pen barrels are hard rubber and they deteriorate for water. quick  wash under running water (always cold ) and quick drying is the recomandation. 

You have got all the info about what ink and what shouldn't be used. You know the waterman ink is the best overall  ink  for many use of standardising  and comparisons. Lot of people use it to compare other inks to find in comparison to watermans ink when they are looking different aspect in writing. That is my point on ink here. 
I highly recommend  you not to use the pen as eye- droppers. Those pens are very sensitive and  this pen is of course not your every day writer. So giving  that pen a noble place for an occasional  writer you can have more attention and care for this pen. ( try to use it as a dip pen )
I own many pens like this one. Some watermans and Mabie Todds  Onto De la Rue "The pen" as eye dropers. They are more than century old So this is my experience about these older pens. (Also I have broke several in my first operations of removing the section to take out the nibs.) But they are all fixed.
   So good luck and congrats on your  new writer.
This is an important video on policing  and cleaning a pen.
He is an expert on pen restoring vintage pens . Have a look at his videos.

Tools & Supplies / Re: Curv-E Holder - New Oblique Pen Holder
« on: June 25, 2021, 08:09:49 AM »
My Curve-E is doing fine I am having a kind of "Writing -block" these days and trying to recharge myself back to get things going. ;)

Tools & Supplies / Re: How can I keep vintage nibs rust free?
« on: May 08, 2021, 08:33:30 AM »
I found this old thread while I was looking for a solution to save some rusty Dip pen nibs
This time it is a question regarding removing rust.

"How to restore rusty Vintage nibs." :-\

I have a whole bunch of nibs they are worth restoring.
Few Gillotte nibs and French Blanzy and Bagnol pens. I  have already tried a batch with white vinegar. They were not so bad but it seems this process needs time and have to leave the nibs for hours or overnight in the soak.
I am thinking of using wire-wool mesh, an occasional gentle use of nail file sand paper could give a bit more help to take off the century old rusty layers. :o
Any ideas or a methods helped you in your experience in this matter,  I like to hear about will help someone like me to save a life of the century old pen again.
Thank you. ;D

Still use your excellent book "Italic Varants" as my go-to reference for Italic.  I reorganized my office recently and once I find where I put your Calligarphy DVD, I'll have another great reference for Copperplate.  Thank you again!
There was a reasonable amount of interest in both of my books and my DVD
but as they were produced by myself by hand, I eventually realised that they were not a practical enterprise as they took too long to assemble. As a result I abandoned production a couple of years ago.
I am glad that you found them of use, and you are now in possession of a very limited edition!

Thank you ken,
I have a copy of this book and older edition.
I am onto this book and It is time for me to go deeper and more serious ( COPPERPLATE ) Calligraphy.
Thank you for all contribution and your great penmanship.

I am so happy to hear you are giving the Curv-E a try Cyril @Cyril Jayant ! As you know, it is the only holder I use now. It just feels right for me. I suggest really giving it a go before deciding and not switching back and forth to another holder for a bit. This way your hand also develops a memory for the feel of the holder.

I would also suggest (and some may disagree with me), that you practice with a Nikko G or Zebra G until you develop a feel for the hand. I say this because the nibs are stiffer than others (especially vintage) and will allow you the ability to concentrate on other aspects until you feel comfortable with it. Every nib has its nuances and once you have developed your hand, then experimenting with different nibs gives you a whole new field of play. It is remarkable the difference nib to nib.

Some say because they are so stiff, you cannot get a proper shade with a Nikko or Zebra. That's nonsense. You do not need to exert a great amount of pressure to produce a shade (as you can tell when using a Hunt 101 or Gillott 404). It's a slight increase in pressure, no matter the nib. It really comes from the brain to the proprioceptors in your finger tips. The reverse is true in terms of a hairline. You can get a beautiful hairline with those nibs - but I agree it will never rival the vintage nibs or the new Leonardt Principal EF.

While it seems like the oblique holder is yet another item to have to deal with in terms of learning curve, I like to suggest people start as they mean to go on when developing their hand. Once people start with a straight holder, it is difficult to transition to an oblique and vice versa. But I will reiterate, any good penman, no matter how good, if they are using a straight holder, there will be a slight ragged right edge to their Engrosser's script. It may not be nakedly visible but it's there. The oblique eliminates this and produces a smooth edge on both sides because of how it allows the pressure to be exerted on the pen.

I look forward to hearing how you like the Curv-E!  :)

P.S. I find the Gillott 303 scratchy no matter what! I rarely find one that doesn't give me splats.  :o

Thank you Erica for your opinions on holders and the nibs.  I really appreciate  everything you said and highly value your experience on this.. It is very helpful for others as well as the beginners we are caught up with many things and end up giving more to go further in this writing journey. As for me I started with fountain pens and entered into the rabbit hole of LETTERING :) I gained certain level and this block up appeared in my front. As I started to go for Spencerian first then learned my hair lines must have a control. That was my take then I was interested in Ef nibs. But I know I can do it with Nikkor and G nibs too.  ( I am aware that G Nibs are one of the the principle pens for Michael Sull and Suzanne Cunningham and many many more )
I am definitely change into the ZEBRA G As I know that nib is a great performer  in Engrosser's Script.
They do use it beautifully. I agree I must try it too. But at the time I am trying Spencerian lettering with Fountain pen ink. I am not even using Sumi or other specialised  ink or Water colour based/ Gouach ink. I think G nibs are more important in those medium and combos.
About the Holder-Curve-E  I definitely keep to it as it is one of the best that I have. Your points  on the holders is very important and  thank you for that.

It is true some favourites nibs are great for some and they are the haters for another. Example although I am a LEO PERSON ;)    'THE LEO PEN' is not my cup of tea. Hope it'll be one day :)
I'll be back soon to talk about this Pen holder Curve -E  and thank you @Erica !

I am on to calligraphy and still at the bottom level.
I tried so many Oblique holders including two Ergonomic ( different ones with different geometry in holding) My hand is not yet adapted to any holders yet and I am not yet comfortable with any.
So far my experience says, using an oblique holders is another level of in the learning curve. On the other hand all the combinations on an strait classic holders ( I have a lot of them ) gives me a different experience in my writing. All my combinations  were...wide choice of Vintage EF nibs   including few dream point nibs Gillett 303/ 404/ spencerian No1 Hinks well & co 404 and some 303 type Pens.
Those  various nibs  I used  some times works well on a pointed than on a oblique  holder. Same nibs gives me a different  experience  in smoothness in hair lines etc.on a pointed holder.
I am not able to use  a Gillott 303 vintage on any of  my oblique holder as it catches up the paper etc. I have done the flange bended or levelled  to have the appropriate alignment as necessary but I am still experiencing a bit difficulty find to fix this problem.
By the way I thought again I try one or more pens and I bought the E- CUREVE OBLIQUE HOLDER. It just came in today and not yet tried with any nib.  It is just out of the packaging  waiting.

I like to give all the credit to "Erica and Edward "for this amazing pen. The concept seems feel beautiful to fit into any hand. Already I am sure it is the right pen for me .  It is light weight and beautifully  crafted. Thank you Edward and Erica!! :) :) I highly recommend  this pen.

Very meaningful Quote  and it is beautifully done!! :)
Lovely writing.

Tools & Supplies / Re: Curv-E Holder - New Oblique Pen Holder
« on: April 15, 2021, 08:59:03 AM »
I am too interested in this holder and I am already disappointed with several other pen I got.
That's because I believe I have a different hold and feel when I write  so I believe I can get my hand to adopted to this pen.
This is a beautifully craft pen. So my interest is to try this ~Curve -grip pen. :D

Everyday Handwriting | Penmanship / Re: What happened to my cursive?
« on: March 25, 2021, 10:07:29 AM »
This is good great topic and I like to know more about this.

Beautiful writing.
This nib is very rare  to find and I have not seen any!! :-[

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