Author Topic: Posture and Ergonomics  (Read 34591 times)

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2016, 05:53:13 PM »
I don't have much time for so-called "ergonomic" penholders as I feel that they vary too much to be of good general use, and would inevitably require some  modification to the tried and tested traditional handgrip. Also, I have to admit that I find it very difficult to enthuse over something which has all the aesthetic appeal of a little piece of distorted driftwood. :P

Offline melanie jane

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2016, 07:32:22 PM »
I make both 'normal' and ergonomic oblique pens, so I have no bias from that regard.  But I will say that I , personally, find ergonomic pens much more comfortable.  However, I've always found that my fingers start to hurt if I use a normal pen for too long, so maybe I'm a bit odd  :o  I would suggest that if you're perfectly happy and comfortable with a normal pen then stick with it, but if, like me, you find a normal pen starts to hurt after a while, then an ergonomic may be of benefit.
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Offline AndyT

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2016, 08:38:30 PM »
... I find it very difficult to enthuse over something which has all the aesthetic appeal of a little piece of distorted driftwood. :P

Have you seen Salman's, Ken?

I can't help thinking that for the word "ergonomic" to have any real meaning there has to be an element of tailoring to the individual user: after all, I have big carpenter's hands, so what suits me probably wouldn't work for Donald Trump.  ;)

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2016, 02:48:08 AM »
I am aware of several manufacturers of these weird implements.

As no two hands are the same, I don't see how they would work - unless they were made on a one-off basis to suit each individual. It strikes me as a typical, shortcut attempt for those who think that the magic lies in the tool and not the hand.

As one with an interest in calligraphy; friends, family and acquaintances already think of me as an odd fruitcake, and if I were seen attempting to write with a piece of strangely, contorted wood, the impression would be complete.  :P
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 03:49:36 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline AndyT

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2016, 04:46:24 AM »
It strikes me as a typical, shortcut attempt for those who think that the magic lies in the tool and not the hand.

Harsh, that, but I don't buy into notions of tool magic either.  It is, however, worth getting something that you like - you seem to have settled on Brian's holders, whilst Melanie Jane is happier making something to suit herself.  My favourite pens are made by geese.  Doesn't make much odds in the end really, does it?

I predicted a while ago that ergonomic holders would become popular soon, because people are always looking for something new and different to spend money on.  What will never change is that the holder is the least important consideration, and the physical things which do make a difference are paper, nibs and ink (in that order if you ask me).  :)

I mentioned Salman's ergonomic holders in particular because they're little artworks in their own right - definitely nothing like driftwood.  Far more of a challenge to make than a turned holder in my opinion.

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2016, 06:40:50 AM »
I mentioned Salman's ergonomic holders in particular because they're little artworks in their own right - definitely nothing like driftwood.  Far more of a challenge to make than a turned holder in my opinion.

To each, his own - as ever  ;D

This search for the "Holy Grail" of penholders is interesting, but ultimately a bit pointless IMO.

Whilst on tour, the saxophonist Stan Getz found a mouthpiece which suited his embouchure. The make and model became known, and they quickly sold out worldwide as saxophonists everywhere tried to emulate the wonderful, distinctive sound he produced. Needless to say no one succeeded and the reason was obvious. The magic wasn't in the mouthpiece but inside himself.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 06:58:53 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline AnasaziWrites

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2016, 09:23:18 AM »

Whilst on tour, the saxophonist Stan Getz found a mouthpiece which suited his embouchure. The make and model became known, and they quickly sold out worldwide as saxophonists everywhere tried to emulate the wonderful, distinctive sound he produced. Needless to say no one succeeded and the reason was obvious. The magic wasn't in the mouthpiece but inside himself.
Darn. Are you implying that even if I buy a bunch of Gillott Principalities and write with them, I won't write like Madarasz? It was his favorite nib, after all.  ::)

Offline AndyT

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2016, 11:28:25 AM »
I have decided not to invest in a pair of Usain Bolt endorsed running shoes.

Offline jeanwilson

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2016, 01:07:27 PM »
Another problem with the death grip is that you can create some severe problems in your thumb, wrist, elbow, shoulder, neck, or back. The war-stories that you hear from the old-timers should inspire you to lighten up. My personal war-story is that I developed a tennis elbow and had to completely stop writing for several weeks and wait for it to heal. Ever since then, if I am not careful, it will flare up.

Offline garyn

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2016, 02:28:33 PM »
I tend to cross my ankles when sitting.  I have to remind myself not to do this and to make sure my feet flat on the floor when I do calligraphy.  My writing suffers when I change the position of my feet from flat on the floor to crossed.  I'm guessing that my body isn't as stable as when my feet are flat on the floor.

Todd
About your crossing your legs.  This could be a couple/few things.  Here are some ideas based on what I know about me.
1- a blood circulation problem in your leg.
2- muscle twitchy.  Your leg muscles wants to move, and sitting motionless for a long time makes the muscles 'twitchy.'  By crossing your leg you put pressure on the muscles, so they don't twitch. 
Gary

Offline Mimi

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2016, 01:01:41 PM »
I wanted to ask if anyone has used any of the ergonomic nib holders out there? I'm more curious about the Heebs holders and Chris Yokes' ergo replica holders because those are high on my list haha, but I'd love to hear what anyone's thoughts are on any ergo holders.

I've been steering more towards ergonomic holders because my grip is a little bit different and I have small hands. Not all holders are comfortable for me.

I purchased an ergonomic holder from Lindsey Hook, and it is my favorite holder right now.  She crafts pens for each individual by asking for measurements, assessing your grip, the way you hold your pen, and the angle in which your nib touches the paper. It fits my hand perfectly and I'm able to work without getting calluses on my fingers. It has been the most comfortable holder that I've purchased thus far and highly recommend it. However, I haven't tried other pens before, so I can't attest to other ergonomic pen, but I love Lindsey's pens and her work! :)

I've been working with Heebs for my next ergo pen. I'll let you know what I think of it once the jury is in on that verdict. :)
Mimi

Offline ChristenAllocco

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2017, 05:37:10 PM »
Hi Flourish friends,

I have an unexpected injury. I'm a righty, but I recently developed tendonitis in my LEFT hand. I think it's because when I write, I hold down my paper with my left hand (perhaps my left hand is taking on the death grip for the right, haha). The pinky-side of my wrist was so stiff, I was in a splint for most of January and February.

Anyone have tips for what to do with their non-dominant hand while writing? I have zero intentions of giving up calligraphy, so I want to be able to write comfortably and safely for the long haul.

Going forward I'm absolutely going to be more intentional about practicing better posture (just watched Harvest's video posted in this thread), but I'm interested to hear if anyone else has experienced this.

Thanks!

Christen
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Offline Simone Lettering

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2017, 06:35:30 AM »
Hello everybody!

I have just watched Harvest her video on pointed pen basics, that is shared on the first page of this thread.

In the beginning she mentions that pointed pen calligraphy is done with the paper flat on the table and that broad-edge calligraphy is mostly done in an angle, on a slanted surface.

What is the reason for this difference?

I am only doing pointed pen calligraphy and tried working on both a flat and a slanted surface. And I feel that I prefer working on a slanted surface, as it helps me keep my posture better.
But maybe that is because I didn't have the setting of my table & chair totally right.
With Harvest her tips, I will certainly try to see if I can get my table & chair in a better position and see how writing with the paper flat on the table will go then.

Are there more pointed pen calligraphers here who prefer writing on a slanted surface?

Regards,
Simone

Offline AndyT

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2017, 07:50:22 AM »
Hello @Simone Lettering   :)

There's a good reason for this, but the first thing to say, as ever, is if something works for you it can't be wrong, can it?  This area of posture and ergonomics is open to a lot of personal variation, and so long as you aren't giving yourself back ache or carpal tunnel syndrome you should trust your instincts.

With that out of the way, the business of flat table for pointed pen and slanted board for edged is largely to do with ink flow rather than anything else.  Because of the way a pointed nib works and the way ink will cling to it, some help from gravity is necessary.  Some people will use a tilted board (which can be more comfortable), but it tends to be a matter of a couple of degrees or so.  If you decide to use a quill for copperplate or Spencerian, you might find that a steeper angle is better because ink flows more readily from a feather than from steel.  The typical set up for edged pen is a board tilted to 45į or more - this is to slow down the flow and prevent pooling.  In this case the pen is not far off horizontal.

I usually write on a flat table, but most of the Spencerian writers I've met (all of whom are way better than me) favour a board on the table with a thin lath across the back edge to give a very slightly angled surface.  You are right to identify the relationship between chair and table as being very important, but a gently tilted surface can give you a bit of extra leeway.

Offline Simone Lettering

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Re: Posture and Ergonomics
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2017, 09:03:37 AM »
Hi @AndyT !

Thank you so much for the explanation!
And yes, you are right that it is also a personal thing, as we all have different bodies.
I will see what works best for me in the long run.
So far I didn't experience any severe ink flow problems with working on a slanted surface.
But when it does happen once, I now at least know what might also be the problem  ;D

Have a nice day! I hope the weather in the UK is like here today: sunny and quite warm  8)