Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate

[ash0kgiri]

Hi @SMK

Here's Group three letters.
Im not happy with what I'm posting as i can see just flaws everywhere.
The ovals are quite tough and I'm struggling to make them perfect oval.
Most of the time I'm going off and not able to connect the down stoke to he up stroke.
I think Im doing it wrong. The oval thickness is not consistent and so are with other letters.
Spacing is off and so is slant angle.

Salman over to you. Will post round 2 again for review tomorrow.

Thanks,
Regards,
Ashok

[Salman Khattak]

OK - I think it might be time to slow down a little bit for the round letters. I see that you are starting at the 1 o' clock position for the round letters. It can take a bit of practice to get back to the starting point consistently as it is a hairline. Most times, the join can be hidden by the blob of the 'o' or merged into the connection with the following stroke but even then it can show if they are too far off.

Practice just the 'o' stroke (no blob) in groups of 5. Give yourself time. I know it feels good to pick things up quickly but remember the ultimate goal is just to get it right - not get it right quickly :-)

When you move on to letters with strokes on the right ('a', 'd') resist the tendency to draw the closing stroke as a join. In the word 'aged' that is tick-marked, both the 'a' and the 'd' have the closing strokes going out to meet the second strokes rather than closing the oval.

Spacing is a subtle thing. Copperplate is nearly auto-spacing. The natural angle of the hairline exit from the baseline joining the following letter halfway up the x-height dictates the base space. It can increase a little in some cases (like the i-n join) or decrease a bit in others (i-r) join to maintain the overall texture. It is more a matter of skill than calculation - this is one of the biggest challenges in typography as it tries to quantify this 'skill'. There are some texts that have attempted to formalize a system of spacing but none have really succeeded.

The goal of spacing is to make the words readable and to give the text an even texture. It is ok, nay required, to break the rules to achieve the primary objectives. Those who can accomplish this in the most aesthetically pleasing way are the 'good' calligraphers IMO.

- Salman

[ash0kgiri]

OK - I think it might be time to slow down a little bit for the round letters.

Hi Salman,

Very well said. Im ready to put in whatever hours of practise it takes to make them perfect vs how quickly I can see the results. That was never my objective. While i was writing the oval i realised that the closing strokes are going off and then i was trying to salvage it with a joint as you mentioned. But that not i wanted to do. So let me practise the 'o' without the blob and once i perfect that i would move on to other forms.
Also is there any video of yours with this letter form i can refer to. May be on Instagram. I will surely be helpful.

Thats the best 'Spacing' definition i have ever read. And nothing explains it better. Been into advertising i understand what you trying to say.  Copperplate 'spacing' is a different ballgame altogether but the fundamentals are the same as applied in typography.

Thanks again Salman.
Regards,
Ashok

[ash0kgiri]

Hi @SMK

Today's drills on the reworked Group 3 letters. Done few but focusing on the shape of the letter form. Slowed my writing time drastically
Quite satisfied with the results. The ovals are way better than yesterdays. Not used blobs to hid the joint.
Started from 1'0 clock and did the full circle till i started.

Would like to know what you think. Appreciate your valuable time.

Thanks,
Regards,
Ashok

[Salman Khattak]

Looks great Ashok - much improved.

Here are a few refinements:

1. The oval shape is now very good. However, in letters with a stroke following it, like 'a' and 'd', I see the second stroke going lower than the oval at the base line.

2. I also see the second stroke in the 'a' and 'd' being a little thicker than the thickest part of the oval. I think the thickness of the shade in the oval is a good weight - the heavier straight stroke should be lightened.

3. The 'g' is very nicely balanced both in slant and weight. The shade on the down stroke should taper off a bit earlier - the last little bit that comes down is just a hairline. This makes for a more delicate and pleasing 'g' in my opinion. 

4. The eye of the 'e' should join the shade a bit higher. It comes slightly below half x-height - it should be a little bit above it. The shade on the closing stroke should be very slight.

5. The hairline coming out of the blob on an 'o' (or the right side of a 'w') should move up immediately as if you are at the baseline. This will give you a little bit more horizontal room to turn around for the 'n' in 'won'. This turn is too tight in your examples.

6. The joins into the 'o' shape should merge at 1/2 x-height like the d-o join in 'dog'. The a-g and e-d joins in 'aged' and c-o and d-e joins in 'code' join the following letter too low making for an abrupt transition. The d-o join in 'dog' is much smoother by comparison - that should be your goal.

I am glad to note that the other letters are not suffering as a result of your focus on the round ones. This is a worthy accomplishment in its own right.

Regards,
Salman

[ash0kgiri]

Hi Salman,

Much relieved. And felling good that you are seeing some improvements.
Thanks again for the detailed mail and explanation. In todays practise session let me try and cover all your points that you mentioned, along will pervious group letters. Is it ok if I do words combining all three letter Group?

Excited to get back to my practise desk

Regards,
Ashok

[Salman Khattak]

Hi Ashok - please do include letters from other groups in your practice. I choose the practice words for each group to include joins and combinations that can be tricky but practising other words and phrases can be very helpful.

One should set aside some time for dedicated practice with clear and concise goals e.g. the points I noted above. That time should be used just for achieving those goals. Outside of that is play time - enjoy your calligraphy :-)

I use my study time for specific things like coming up with exercises (and practising them myself) for spacing, fixing something that needs fixing e.g. 'a' in italic etc.

Regards,
Salman

[ash0kgiri]

Hi @SMK

Thats what I'm planning to do. May it was not clear in my mail. I will include letters from the previous groups and do some word practise.
If you have any specific practise sheet that i can refer to, it would be great.

Thanks
Regards,
Ashok

[ash0kgiri]

Hi @SMK

Here are today's practise sheets. Have mixed letters from the previous group.
Have a look and waiting to know your valuable feedback.

Thanks,
Regards,
Ashok

[s.hemprich]

Just wanted to say your upper stem loops are looking much better! I would watch their consistency in terms of height.

[ash0kgiri]

Hi Sandy,

Thanks for the kind words. Will keep that in mind.

Ashok

[Salman Khattak]

Looking good Ashok :-)

Like Sandy said, the loops should be the same height. I also think they would look better if the tops were a little more pointed and the widest point was a little lower than the absolute top of the stroke. This is just an opinion though.

In the second example, it looks like the straight strokes go a bit lower than ones that turn around at the base line. It might be the angle but it looks like the bottom of the 't' and stem stroke of the 'h' are lower than the second stroke of the 'h' and the following 'a' in 'than' on the last line.

Does it look like the 'e' in 'enigma' is leaning to the right too much? If you notice, the shade is thickest at just above 1/2 x-height - this causes the round letters to tip over. Also, the slant is a bit off I think.

These are minor things in the overall scheme of things. I think you have a very good sense of the balance and shape of the letters. I think the last group of 'misfits' will not be a challenge for you at all. Lets get to the f, r, s, x, z. You have the whole minuscule alphabet to play with now so come up with any words you feel like.

Regards,
Salman

ps. The joints into the round shape are still 'going in' a bit too low - watch out for those.

[ash0kgiri]

Hi @SMK

I realised that about the loops and will keep in mind.
Sorry, but was not able to figure out the second comment you made.
I can now see and understand why the 'e' is leaning. And with this logic any letter will tend to look the same? Right?

Will move on to the last group of letters. Can i request you for a link to refer please. Sorry if I'm asking too much. But as i said
it really helps me a lot.

Thanks for your time Salman.

Regards,
Ashok

[Salman Khattak]

Hi Ashok - sorry for not being clear with my comments. In the second example you posted, if you look at the base of the word 'than' on the last line, it seems like the bottoms of some strokes go lower than others e.g. the stem of the 'h' goes lower than the compound curve that follows. I hope it makes some sense now :-)

I don't have group 4 letters uploaded to WC as no on there has gotten to it. I will send you my workshop notes with the letter forms. There isn't as much detail there but you should not have any problems with it.

Regards,
Salman

[ash0kgiri]

Hi Salman,

Clear as crystal. Thanks for the detailed explanation.


Regards,
Ashok