Flourish Forum
General Categories => Spencerian Script => Topic started by: sybillevz on July 21, 2014, 05:25:54 AM
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Just to let you all know, Harvest Crittenden is holding an online class starting in september.
I don't know about you, but I am very tempted !
All the info is here : http://www.acornarts.org/online-classes.html
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i signed up for this last week...totally looking forward to it!!!
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Very tempting ... hmmm. Especially because you get feedback.
And her work is really good ...
Hmmm ...
hmmm ...
hmmmmm ...
Okay, I'll sign up. Joi, let's be study buddies!
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Wow. I've been wanting a class in Spencerian. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." Perhaps it just has! Thanks, Joi!!!
As we learn so much here, I thought I'd share what I just found this about the quote: http://www.fakebuddhaquotes.com/when-the-student-is-ready-the-teacher-will-appear/
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Wow. I've been wanting a class in Spencerian. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." Perhaps it just has! Thanks, Joi!!!
As we learn so much here, I thought I'd share what I just found this about the quote: http://www.fakebuddhaquotes.com/when-the-student-is-ready-the-teacher-will-appear/
I'm not religious, but Mr. Fake Buddha seems like a cool guy ;)
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Oooh tempting! I have taken her copperplate class last year and she is very thorough, kind and give great critiques.
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I've signed up too … this is going to be great!
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See you guys in class, Stefanie, Joi, Debbie... who else?
We can have a little online study group in the Pointed Pen forum! ;D
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I am in too. I really hate self-teaching from these books I have (OMG I know, I am a teacher). I just want to watch someone write, then I can see every angle. I guess that is how I learn art, so I hate reading "use your whole arm to create the letter" well I don't think I will use my foot. j/k
Plus, I didn't get into IAMPETH, so this will be much cheaper.
This will be fun. :o
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Who else?... ME!!! I want in! This great!! Thanks for calling attention to this.
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This looks too good to pass up... I'm signing up too!
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Oh wow, I really want to ... but I'm so busy this semester :(
I will watch you all and be jealous! And next time it is offered I'll jump in.
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aw c'mon Moya...Australia represent!
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aw c'mon Moya...Australia represent!
oh believe me, Australia would LOVE TO represent here!!! buuuuuut work is going to be lots of overtime until this massive THING is over in December, and you would not believe the amount of reading i'm going to have to do to keep up with class ... in my spare time ... my brain already hurts. i think my physical brain actually flinched and started trying to hide at the back of my skull at the thought of squeezing yet another hour out of each day for calligraphy classes too!
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I'm really tempted too.. I'd be less inclined if I were joining alone, but you guys are there too! A bit tight on money at the moment. When is the deadline?
LOL AT FAKE BUDDHA. I like how he made it sound super stereotypical asian too LOLOLLOL
Schin, what kind of videos does she upload? Are they on youtube? My internet at home is problematic with other video providers.. mega video or vimeo loads incredibly slow for me
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I'm really tempted too.. I'd be less inclined if I were joining alone, but you guys are there too! A bit tight on money at the moment. When is the deadline?
I'm in the same boat. If I can get payment in for the couple of jobs I'm doing now, then I'm in!
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I'm really tempted too.. I'd be less inclined if I were joining alone, but you guys are there too! A bit tight on money at the moment. When is the deadline?
I'm in the same boat. If I can get payment in for the couple of jobs I'm doing now, then I'm in!
I'm also in the same boat. This just isn't the time for me. But I'm so excited for all of you and can't wait to hear all about it 😊
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See you guys in class, Stefanie, Joi, Debbie... who else?
We can have a little online study group in the Pointed Pen forum! ;D
Me!
Yes!
The class will be almost FF exclusive, haha.
@Amy: I also don't like learning practical stuff from books very much ... classes! Whee! I miss being a student.
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See you guys in class, Stefanie, Joi, Debbie... who else?
We can have a little online study group in the Pointed Pen forum! ;D
GREAT idea, Linda!
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Moya and Nickki :(
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Moya and Nickki :(
omg don't you sadface at me, young lady!!!
(because it's working ... the guilt .........
depending on when the deadline is, and how much work this law study turns out to be ... maybe ...)
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Calli-peer pressure at it's finest...
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Moya and Nickki :(
omg don't you sadface at me, young lady!!!
(because it's working ... the guilt .........
depending on when the deadline is, and how much work this law study turns out to be ... maybe ...)
Me sad face too 😞😞😞😞😞😔😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 saddest part is I spent 40 bucks to get my car cleaned after my husbands been driving it 😡 and two days later it's raining.... I so could've applied that 40 bucks to the class. **jumping up and down in frustration**
Lol
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omg don't you sadface at me, young lady!!!
ahahaha omg i love you guys.
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so funny...and YOU are the young lady LOL!
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this class sounds fantastic! With so many of yall here joining I really want to sign up...
lets see if my first potential paid gig goes through :P
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Faeleia: No it's not youtube, you can stream the video from her website (she will give you a password to access a course website where there is the lessons archive, the videos, homework and forums) and I think there is an option to download the videos too. It loads pretty fast for me, just let it buffer for half an hour or so. It's all very well produced, I think she hires someone for all the technical stuff and also shes very thorough!!! No regrets!
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!!! I love courses like this, and what a great way for me to learn Spencerian! I've been thinking about it ever since receiving Mike's card in the mail. I think I'll sign up for this tonight! Looking forward to some "studying" with lovely course mates!
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Y'all are so funny..."don't you sad face me, young lady." :D :D
So on another thread I see there's a discussion about favorite nibs for Spencerian. I quite like the Gillott 303, vintage or new, have used the new 404's and they're not bad, and the LPef is my overall favorite nib. In beginning copperplate classes we used the Nikko G and I know some calligraphers swear by that nib for every application, but I find it tiring. Actually, exhausting! That is if I want to have any variation in thicks-n-thins.
@Linda, do you know why Michael Sull uses that for starting Spencerian?
@Schin, what do you recommend as a very first intro to Mr. Spence in preparation for the class?
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curious to know the answers to debbie's questions above.
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In beginning copperplate classes we used the Nikko G and I know some calligraphers swear by that nib for every application, but I find it tiring. Actually, exhausting! That is if I want to have any variation in thicks-n-thins.
@Linda, do you know why Michael Sull uses that for starting Spencerian?
Mr. Sull recommends the Nikko G for beginners - I think it's because you don't want too much variations in thick/thins in the beginning, just the correct letterforms before you can really think about adding shades. The one-day workshop I took with him (too short!!), we barely had time to cover miniscules and only touched on the majuscules. Roseann_g took a 2-day class with him, so she may have more insight to share...
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milon: Once you sign up, Harvest will tell you everything you need to know to begin. She is very thorough and helpful and you will love it!
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Thanks, Ladies. Linda, I thought that might be the reason why--about not wanting too much pressure. Gonna have to find some spencerian no.1's!! Girl's gotta try everything. ;)
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So tempted. I haven't done an online class before. So there's a forum where you can discuss and ask questions later?
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At least when I did her copperplate class, there is a forum where everyone posts their work and she critiques it and discussion, and you can chat about other things too.
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thanks schin.
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Mr. Sull recommends the Nikko G for beginners - I think it's because you don't want too much variations in thick/thins in the beginning
It's actually because he wants to reduce the number of newbie death via nib spearage. newbies (like me) are very unpredictable. We walk into every table corner knock over everyone's ink wells, run with our pens and fall over everything lol.
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It's actually because he wants to reduce the number of newbie death via nib spearage. newbies (like me) are very unpredictable. We walk into every table corner knock over everyone's ink wells, run with our pens and fall over everything lol.
hahaha it's quite a hazardous, isn't it? :D
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I think the Nikko G is a weapon in its own right!
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I think the Nikko G is a weapon in its own right!
i agree debbie. it's one of the most resilient nibs i've tried, and one of the easiest to clean too!
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The only nib I've ever cut myself on is a Nikko G! I pulled it out of the holder with pliers way too carelessly ... sliced my thumb quite deeply. That thing is definitely a weapon!
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What I'm REALLY scared of is nib breaking. It seems like the tine will shoot into the eyes..
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It's actually because he wants to reduce the number of newbie death via nib spearage. newbies (like me) are very unpredictable. We walk into every table corner knock over everyone's ink wells, run with our pens and fall over everything lol.
Well, thank heavens this is an online class then!
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The only nib I've ever cut myself on is a Nikko G! I pulled it out of the holder with pliers way too carelessly ... sliced my thumb quite deeply. That thing is definitely a weapon!
I did the same thing. Spliced my finger open. It wasn't a Nikko G though. More like a crowquill.
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I'm all signed up! Why is September so far away?!
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Did any of you get some kind of confirmation e-mail that you're in or something? Because I didn't and I was wondering.
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Did any of you get some kind of confirmation e-mail that you're in or something? Because I didn't and I was wondering.
I did not. Just a PayPal receipt! And yay Natascha! ;D
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Hi Debbie and Joi,
Yes it's as Linda said, Mr. Sull highly recommends the Nikko G nib. And not only for beginners either. He told the class that it is a workhorse of a nib. You can achieve great thicks and thin thins. He says its a long lasting nib, and able to withstand lots of pressure. He demonstrated it for us and it truly is a great nib.
Also, he highly recommends iron gall ink.
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I think it's awesome for Spencerian, because you don't accidentally add shades because it's not too flexible. ;D
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i haven't used a nikko g since last year...ok old friend, the sole nikko g i have is coming out of the nib storage box and going to be my Spencerian witch w/a b!
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Hi Debbie and Joi,
Yes it's as Linda said, Mr. Sull highly recommends the Nikko G nib. And not only for beginners either. He told the class that it is a workhorse of a nib. You can achieve great thicks and thin thins. He says its a long lasting nib, and able to withstand lots of pressure. He demonstrated it for us and it truly is a great nib.
Also, he highly recommends iron gall ink.
In the class I'm taking (unfortunately tomorrow is the last. :(), for flourishing practice she highly recommended the Nikko G and truthfully, I've been using it almost exclusively. I'm beginning to 'get it' with that nib. It really is a fantastic nib, and has great versatility. Maybe you just have to work up some muscle to get the thicks out of it. What I like most is the ease it gives for upstrokes and it seems friendly to most any paper. Meanwhile, I now have this collection of other nibs.
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I'm in! I have an arsenal of Nikko G's and am ready to go. I abandoned them a few months ago because it was just so much work to get thicks, but it sounds like all that will change with Spencerian.
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Mr Sull reccommends Nikko G even in advanced spencerian workshop.
This is because it had a large reservoir for ink and you can go on and do large shades without having to refill too often.
It's also sharp enough to give small hairline, and not catch up too much on paper.
And above all the tip will not ruin too easely with iron gall ink, which you definitely want to use with spencerian. (It's very corrosive and really eat the nib point...)
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Gahhhhh, I wanna take it!! I need to wait a lil bit and see how the money's going... :o
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Got an email with supply list today!
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Afraid I can't join you ladies for this class either. Still broke until end sept, which is too late already. :'(
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Got an email with supply list today!
Whaaat? I didn't! *off do dig in the spam folder*
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I got an e-mail, too! The supply list wasn't included but it directs you to John Neal Bookseller.
Can't wait!
Update: Well, clearly I didn't read the email that well because the supply list is totally there, haha. That's what I get for reading it right before bed on my tiny phone screen... ::)
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I got the E-mail too :)! Natascha, if you didn't get it I'd write her – or did you find it!?
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i got mine too...and it has the supplies needed listed.
super excited!!!!
it will coincide with my kids returning to school...yipee!!!! perfect timing.
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I got the E-mail too :)! Natascha, if you didn't get it I'd write her – or did you find it!?
Found it in my spam folder!
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Hi everybody,
I just signed up! I'm so excited!
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Oh that sounds so tempting!!! ...but bad timing for me :(
Well, I'll watch what you all are doing after I'm back from our trip in September :)
Have fun!
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Wow, I'm glad I saw this! I'm in - I think this is just what I need, to motivate me to practice in a more deliberate fashion and so I get quality feedback. I feel like I'm currently just nibbling around the edges of Spencerian but not really making much progress. I hope this will help. I look forward to participating and getting to know you guys better!
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I just signed up, I'm looking forward to this, I need the structure of a classroom!
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I started a tread about a great Spencerian Exemplar book here http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1676.0
New Spencerian Compendium, Spencerian Authors, 1879
http://www.iampeth.com/books/spencerian_compendium/compendium_index.php
I am sure Harvest told us about it, but I finally got around to checking out the rare books more on IAMPETH.com.
Practice practice! 52 degree slant!!! 30 degree connectors
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I am so SO sorry that I missed this class, really need one to get started off correctly.
For example, last night (after reading the Mott book all the way through), I went to practice. Apparently, my right hands rests on the table all wrong. In attempting to correct that, I've lost what little control I had over my lettering. Oh dear.
Has anyone else faced this? I probably should have put this elsewhere, don't want to divert the thread.
I have asked Harvest if she will do another online intro class soon, but she will be focusing on other courses. I'll just practice until she holds another intro class.
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Elle,
If you go through the "Spencerian Script" section (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?board=26.0) , a lot of people will answer questions about ink, nibs, hands and what not. It might be a lot of reading, but it helps.
Also, everyone writes differently. We learned to write differently, growing up, then the penman from 1800's.
As for Harvest's classes, maybe email her to see about upcoming classes.
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Hi Elle,
It might be some time before Harvest has that class again.
There are so many wonderful resources out there. Books and videos too.
Good luck!
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Apparently, my right hands rests on the table all wrong. In attempting to correct that, I've lost what little control I had over my lettering. Oh dear.
Be not downcast, Elle, Amy's absolutely right. Not only do very few people use that hand position now, most of the the Golden Age masters didn't either. Here's C P Zaner writing on the subject in 1920:
The old idea that the hand should rest and glide upon the nails of the third and fourth fingers is mere theory, as practically none of our finest penmen write that way. Instead, nearly all of them rest the hand upon the side of the little finger, usually upon the flesh somewhere between the nail and the first joint.
If you hold the pen in the ordinary manner, you're probably already there, more or less. And more importantly, it really doesn't matter how you hold the pen so long as it works for you. I take it by "the Mott book" you mean the theory book? It's an absolutely fundamental source for the classic Spencerian forms and well worth having, but that grip is a hangover from the days of writing with quills and straight pens when the oblique holder was (almost) unheard of.
For a nice practical demonstration I can't recommend Schin's Youtube channel "Openinkstand" highly enough, especially this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caeDy3v0d2Q
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Amy, Roseann, Andy T ~
You are helping me already, I don't feel so "all alone in the night" (been re-watching Babylon 5 again ;D).
I am heartened to hear that something which feels so unnatural is not universally espoused these days. I will re-watch Schin's episodes! She already knows I'm a fan. Actually, she probably thinks I'm a stalker.
Harvest also. She provides a very helpful intro video on her website, I'll re-watch that and focus on hand technique. Although I do think that I lean on the right side of my hand too much, it won't do if/when I get to flourishes, or even the capitals.
Is anyone here a member of Masscribes?
Thanks again!
Elle
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Elle, I emailed Harvest too about the beginner Spencerian class. :( Will patiently wait for when she reruns the class. In the meantime, it's off to books I go.
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No, I live in Chicago.
You should join your guild though, if you haven't already.
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Hi Amy, I'm in central Connecticut. It looks as though the Connecticut guild meets one Wednesday a month, and I have a prior commitment. I'm also in Mass a lot, so that might work. It's not like the states are huge, here!
Back to my books and youtube videos :)
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Hi Elle,
You should still join the Calligraphy guild in your area. Or your surrounding areas. They probably offer many classes and workshops on the weekends. Guilds are a wonderful way to learn and meet other people who love Calligraphy as much as you do. You could even ask around to see if there are other people who would like to meet on a day other that Wednesday.
I personally belong to 4 guilds. One of them is out of state. They really are wonderful.
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Hi Roseann,
Good to know! I am applying to a program in Boston, so it may make sense for me to join Masscribes, even though I'm in Central Connecticut. You raise good points, though, I can join more than one guild!
I'm reading Marc Drogin's book, Medieval Calligraphy, and he recommends joining a UK guild. Sounds like fun!
Best,
Elle
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Hi Elle,
I'm located West of Boston and am not yet a member of Masscribes, but your post reminds me that I should become one :)
Tara
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Hi Ellen,
That's so interesting that Drogin recommends joining a UK guild. But which one?? :)
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... interesting that Drogin recommends joining a UK guild. But which one?? :)
Yes, it's an interesting idea and makes some sense for medieval styles because the broad edge tradition is very strong here. (Conversely, I'm not sure there would be a lot of point in turning up at my local guild with a pointed pen and oblique holder). We're not short on primary source material in Europe, either. I'd suggest having a look at the Society of Scribes and Illuminators (http://www.calligraphyonline.org/) and Calligraphy and Lettering Arts Society (http://www.clas.co.uk/) websites to get an idea of the UK scene: both have extensive links pages. I've heard good things about CLAS in particular, but the SSI is perhaps more prestigious, with links back to the pupils of Edward Johnston.
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Tara - Maybe I'll see you at a meeting :D
Roseaan - AndyT got it, "Society of Scribes and Illuminators" is what Drogin recommends at p 177. He also advises to "seek out the nearest regional society."
I'm very much enjoying Drogin's "Medieval Calligraphy", lots of great information, practical advice for the complete novice (he is very specific on how to proceed -- which I need), and written in an engaging style.
* I've really strayed from the posted topic, apologies!
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Harvest has her Advanced Spencerian Class posted. It starts Wed, Jan 7th. Don't for get to signup!
http://www.acornarts.org/online-classes.html
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Has anyone heard if there is going to be another introductory online Spencerian course (by Harvest or otherwise) any time soon? I'd really like to get my feet a little wetter! ;)
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^same here.
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I check her online schedule weekly. She hasn't posted one yet.
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There is always the Spencerian Saga, offered by Harvest in October, one week for beginners, and one week for advanced. It's not online, though. See details at her site:
http://www.acornarts.org/ (http://www.acornarts.org/)
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There is always the Spencerian Saga, offered by Harvest in October, one week for beginners, and one week for advanced. It's not online, though. See details at her site:
http://www.acornarts.org/ (http://www.acornarts.org/)
It is my life goal to be able to do that. Alas, nowhere near fitting in my budget anytime soon, but it's a good goal to have :).
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I would love to go to this. Maybe one day...
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http://www.acornarts.org/online-classes.html
There is another Beginners Spencerian course starting January 13th, and I decided to sign up this time! Hoping it will help me learn this beautiful script!
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http://www.acornarts.org/online-classes.html
There is another Beginners Spencerian course starting January 13th, and I decided to sign up this time! Hoping it will help me learn this beautiful script!
I promise--you won't be disappointed. FYI, DO post your homework once you're in the class--to the class forum, that is. Here too, if you like!
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I second Debbie's recommendation! Even if you have a foundation already, it's great to go through the principals and all the letters again with direct feedback from Harvest and your class mates!
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That's good to hear! Yes, at the moment I'm planning on doing all the assignments although I'm not the most patient person when it comes to drills.
Seeing a video on spencerian last year was the reason I discovered the pointed pen & my little obsession with calligraphy began, however I ended up learning copperplate (or something that resembles it) because an oval for me is so much easier (or more natural to me) than those crazy little spencerian hooks / angles which I can never get right!
Thanks all!
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I hope people take this class. She is great! I learned proper Spencerian from her and gilding too.
Also I know that there are a lot of younger/less experience calligraphy teachers now. Classes are popping up left and right.
I have a background in teaching and taught for over 12 years, so I have an opinion being a professional student/teacher myself. When it comes to taking classes I like to take classes from instructors that have be doing calligraphy/the subject matter for a very long time, like some longer than I have been alive. Why? Because they not only teach you the proper letter forms etc., but they also tell you EVERYTHING they have used, hints, practice, drills and details that I have not experienced. They have knowledge and share it. When I am at home I remember things that have said, "Oval into an oval, into an oval, etc.", Harvest Crittenden and "Begin with a whisper and exit with a whisper", Jake Weidmann. I can even hear the instructors voices in my head. In college classes, I get upset when I get a newbie college professor too, only because they are still learning themselves.
Thanks for reading my humble opinion. Take it or leave it.