Author Topic: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)  (Read 2946 times)

Offline Brad franklin

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White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« on: January 11, 2015, 12:06:06 AM »
Hello calligraphy friends I have a question. First I would like to say that when you write white ink on black paper it looks so much better to me than black on white. I guess its just different. Anywho my question is I decided to give it a try so I was at my local Hobby Lobby and picked up some nice think black paper and some Dr. Ph. Martin's Bombay white India ink. When I try to write the ink is like a consistency of 2% milk, very watery. It just falls off the nib. I know there have been other discussions on this but it was Dr. Martins Pen Ink. Well Hobby Lobby only has a limited supply so this is what I have. Can I make it work? Maybe some gum Arabic? Please give me suggestions before I take it back. It will not write on anything, I even tried a blue envelope no luck. However vermillion sumi looks awesome on the black paper. But I purchased it for white. I will be eagerly awaiting any suggestions. Many thanks.
Brad

Offline Heebs

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2015, 02:00:08 AM »
I would stay away from India ink if you want opaque white. India ink in general can wreck havoc on your nibs if not properly cleaned often due to the binder but I enjoy using it for ruling pen work. I believe you can try leaving the container open and see if some of the humidity in it evaporates and thickens it up but those inks don't have the pigment count to get as opaque as what you see with Dr. Ph. Martin's Bleedproof White or even McCaffery's Bright White. If you have to get it locally I would try asking for Dr. Ph. Martin's Bleedproof white at a local art store if you have one, they usually tend to carry it from my experiences.

Offline Brad franklin

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2015, 02:35:17 AM »
I though so, leave it up to me to get the wrong thing,  I also use old world iron gall ink they tear up nibs to as well right? But I do clean with water and ammonia soap and or alcohol after I am done. Really ever few minutes.

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2015, 08:44:00 AM »
Hi Brad,
  I agree with Heebs.  Before I attended my first IAMPETH, I didn't realize all white inks aren't created equal!  I, too, went to Hobby Lobby and picked up Speedball white and it was a disaster.  My go-to is Dr. Ph Martin's Bleedproof.   If you can get your hands on a bottle, you will notice the difference!  You can order it from Paper and Ink/John Neal's calalogues.  It is well worth the price!
  Hope to see some examples soon!
    Agnes

Offline joi

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2015, 11:30:27 AM »
bleed proof white is the way to go!

Offline lyndsaywrightdesign

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2015, 12:36:37 AM »
If you need something that you can find locally and quickly, I'd go with a white gouache!  I have the bleedproof white, but I also use white gouache a lot.  It doesn't produce as thin of a hairline as the bleedproof, but I think that can actually be good sometimes for things like signage, when too thin of a hairline decreases legibility. 
http://www.lyndsaywrightdesign.com
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Offline Brad franklin

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2015, 12:42:04 AM »
I thought about that but believe it or not I have not used any gouache yet. So kind of nervous about that. I found out that my somewhat local art store (25 miles) carries dr. Martin's Bleed proof. When I was at hobby lobby I looked for Windsor and Newton gouache because I heard that was the best. But I really don't know to be honest with you. When I do I'm going to follow the instructions on this forum. Thanks for the advice.

Offline AmyNeub

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 12:39:35 PM »
Jean Wilson helped me out with Holbein Acryla Gouache. Is "a fast-drying, opaque acrylic based watercolor paint. It's water soluble while wet, and water-resistant, matte and opaque, even over dark surface" Blick Arts has it, I didn't see at my Michaels though.

I don't like regular gouache because is smears (it's dry) going through the postal system, but it's ok for regular pieces that do not travel.


Offline Heebs

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2015, 01:09:56 PM »
I'll second Acryla if you have access to it, they label it as acrylic gouache but its essentially very highly pigmented acrylic paint that has the workability and opacity of gouache. It's not 100% smear proof but pretty close, if it comes in contact with water within a few days of being used it will smear a little bit but it's usually unnoticeable.

Offline Brad franklin

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2015, 04:02:00 PM »
This is what I did. I went to the big city, went to the real art store. I purchused some dr. Martins bleed proof white. I also bought a small tube of Windsor & newton gouache. So I can start getting my hands dirty and learning that stuff. And some other goodies.

Offline Heebs

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2015, 05:51:13 PM »
Awesome! Don't be afraid of either, they take a bit of experimenting with and the brushing on is quite annoying at first but once you get the water/paint ratio right you'll have a lot of fun.

Offline Brad franklin

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2015, 05:56:39 PM »
Awesome! Don't be afraid of either, they take a bit of experimenting with and the brushing on is quite annoying at first but once you get the water/paint ratio right you'll have a lot of fun.

Thanks Heebs. If I have any questions I will definitely speak up!

Offline Brad franklin

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2015, 07:07:11 PM »
Friends, help!

I tried the Dr. Martins bleed proof white. It is thick. I thought it was an liquid ink! What do I need to do?

Offline Moya

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2015, 07:14:33 PM »
Don't panic Brad!  There are two ways you can use DM Bleedproof:
  • Put a little water into the top of the jar and mix with a paintbrush - but only mix the top layers, don't dip your brush all the way in.  You end up working with only the top centimetre or so of the jar, never mixing more than that, so you have a layer of useable fluid on top and then the bottom of the jar is full of the thick stuff.  This sounds hard but it's actually the easiest way to work with bleedproof for me - you can add a little water and 'scoop' up a little more ink with your brush as you need. 

  • Or you can scoop out a blob or two of white and put it in a separate jar and mix to the desired consistency there.  This means you get a separate jar dirty though.
Either way, you can load your pen with a brush or you can dip it (being careful, if you're working the first way, not to dip too far ...)

I like to use a brush because it cleans the gunk off the nib each time you reload and you always get a fine point.  But I'm finicky.

Oh - be careful to only ever use super clean brushes in white!  I have a special brush set aside labelled "BLEEDPROOF WHITE ONLY" - that way I don't risk traces of other colours tainting it.

Hope that helps!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 07:18:26 PM by Moya »

Offline Heebs

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Re: White Ink On Black Paper (Help a brother out)
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2015, 07:15:59 PM »
You have to water it down a bit, put some in a small container and add a few drops of distilled water at a time and mix. Gum arabic helps sometimes as well but if you just have water it should be fine. The only good white that comes ready to use (that I trust) is McCaffery's Bright white but that's only available online, still most prefer Bleedproof white for best opacity. Check out these blog posts by Schin.

https://openinkstand.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/hi-schin-i-really-love-your-blog-and-artwork-i-have/
https://openinkstand.wordpress.com/2014/04/30/what-white-ink-would-you-recommend-i-love-the-winsor/
https://openinkstand.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/hi-schin-how-do-you-make-good-hairline-with-white-ink/