Author Topic: italian hand  (Read 10228 times)

Offline PapeLineCo

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italian hand
« on: December 05, 2015, 03:38:08 AM »
hello all

anyone knows what book/online recources good for learning italian hand (like heather victoria's), also, any other name for it ?

thanks!

Offline FrancescaV

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2015, 03:41:58 PM »
I was going to ask the exact same question.  :D
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Offline tomcalligraphy

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2015, 05:39:31 PM »
Heather's style is called "Italian Hand" but the issue I have with it is she uses an oblique instead of a straight holder which is what its meant to be written with. Its kind of a lost art. I've been trying to find a good instruction but as they said in the past, it's so easy a woman can do it.

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2015, 06:58:20 PM »
Here's my Italian Hand exemplar. written in the style of the 18th century "The Universal Penman"


« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 06:57:45 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline PapeLineCo

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2015, 07:10:51 PM »
Heather's style is called "Italian Hand" but the issue I have with it is she uses an oblique instead of a straight holder which is what its meant to be written with. Its kind of a lost art. I've been trying to find a good instruction but as they said in the past, it's so easy a woman can do it.

Ahh i see. Yeah I've been searching for heather's style up until now but I couldn't find it.

Offline YokePenCo

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2015, 07:11:32 PM »
I zipped up several examples I have and they are downloadable from my website below. Many are American Italian, which is Italian Flourished Caps combined with spencerian lowercase, but there is a mixture of files in this zipped file.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0229/9449/files/American_Italian.zip?15920833499146993719

I also know that Heather and Don Marsh are working on a book for Italian Hand currently. Now sure hwo close it is to being completed.
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Offline tomcalligraphy

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2015, 08:44:09 PM »
Heather's style is called "Italian Hand" but the issue I have with it is she uses an oblique instead of a straight holder which is what its meant to be written with. Its kind of a lost art. I've been trying to find a good instruction but as they said in the past, it's so easy a woman can do it.

Ahh i see. Yeah I've been searching for heather's style up until now but I couldn't find it.

I've been trying to learn it through Skype Lessons with Master Penman Connie, I still don't understand why in the past they said it was easy. Getting used to a straight holder is rather hard after being accustomed to an oblique.

Offline AmyNeub

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2015, 10:43:49 PM »
"The Universal Penman" by George Beckham has exemplars of Italian Hand. The book is available online.

Offline FrancescaV

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2015, 12:45:13 PM »
Thank you Ken for the exemplar!  ;D

I zipped up several examples I have and they are downloadable from my website below. Many are American Italian, which is Italian Flourished Caps combined with spencerian lowercase, but there is a mixture of files in this zipped file.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0229/9449/files/American_Italian.zip?15920833499146993719

I also know that Heather and Don Marsh are working on a book for Italian Hand currently. Now sure hwo close it is to being completed.

Thank you for the link! Need to keep an eye out for Heathers book.  :)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 04:31:47 AM by Cescav123 »
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Offline sanne137

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2016, 03:48:52 PM »
Thanks for the exemplar!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 03:54:10 PM by sanne137 »

Offline Moya

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2016, 07:13:04 PM »
Heather's style is called "Italian Hand" but the issue I have with it is she uses an oblique instead of a straight holder which is what its meant to be written with. Its kind of a lost art. I've been trying to find a good instruction but as they said in the past, it's so easy a woman can do it.

Heather uses a straight holder :) She told me to stop as soon as she saw me trying with an oblique.

Offline sanne137

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2016, 03:23:10 AM »
Heather's style is called "Italian Hand" but the issue I have with it is she uses an oblique instead of a straight holder which is what its meant to be written with. Its kind of a lost art. I've been trying to find a good instruction but as they said in the past, it's so easy a woman can do it.

Heather uses a straight holder :) She told me to stop as soon as she saw me trying with an oblique.

I am maybe cursing in calligraphy church right now, but does it really matter which holder you use? I would think the result is the only thing that matters?

Offline sybillevz

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2016, 03:27:45 AM »
Isn't there a little confusion here about Italian hand ?
There is the "classic" italian hand documented in the Universal Penman and beautifully illustrated by Ken earlier. I think it originated in Italy and was a precursor of English Round Hand. That is the style Heater Held writes. It looks like compressed copperplate forms with little blobs of ink at the top instead of long and even shades.

Then there is the "american" italian hand, executed with a straight holder with a off-hand grip. I think this was mostly used for capital variations, but I've seen a few examples of text written that way. It looks like Ornamental Penmanship (derived from spencerian letterforms) written backwards. I wouldn't say this is an easy technique !

I'm not sure both hands are related ?

Offline AndyT

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2016, 05:12:24 AM »
I agree with Sybille: the American Italian hand seems to be quite distinct and is probably best regarded as a nineteenth century confection.  Time for a digression, methinks ...

Those bulbous ascenders which got on Alfred Fairbank's nerves seem to have originated in Italy in the late 16th century but quickly became a feature of English writing.  They were probably rather old fashioned in Bickham's day, by which time the English round hand had evolved as a distinctive style in its own right.  It seems that "Italian hand" was defined as narrower and lighter, and considered suitable for ladies, whereas the new round hand was a business script above all.

Just for once I find myself in agreement with Fairbank.  It all started off well as a mild modification of cancellaresca involving a turning of the pen, but the big bulbs used by the likes of Edward Cocker in the late 17th century look contrived and rather tasteless.  Fairbank blames the engravers for everything he dislikes (all writing between Bartholomew Dodington and Edward Johnston, in effect) and he may well have a point, but I reckon you also have to suspect poor taste and showmanship on the part of the writing masters.

Incidentally, the wedged shades on Spencerian "t", "d" and "p" are perhaps descendants of those Italian hand bulbs.  They're also susceptible to over-emphasis and best kept relatively modest in my opinion.

Offline jeanwilson

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Re: italian hand
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2016, 06:49:10 AM »
I am maybe cursing in calligraphy church right now, but does it really matter which holder you use? I would think the result is the only thing that matters?

Making a comparison to *church* is very appropriate.
Yes, you find some people who are ultra traditional and want to adhere to very specific rules and at the other end of the spectrum you find people who embrace the spirit of the activity but are more relaxed and flexible in their approach. And there are people in the middle. There will never be agreement on anything (except maybe which end of the nib to insert in the holder) but hopefully there is an abundance of respect for our fellow travelers on the path of penmanship. There are so many sources that acknowledge the spiritual benefits of engaging in an art or craft. When you connect with that joy of making something with your hands, there is a benefit.