Oblique Pen Holders & Early Copperplate?

[Calligriophile]

I know that oblique Pen Holders are the norm for Copperplate script now, but what did early Copperplate and Engrosser's script calligraphers use? I am far from great at Copperplate, but it kind of came easy to me because I was taught cursive penmanship by a really strict grade school teacher who made us slant our paper very similar to how we have to in copperplate, and I used a regular holder for a long time.
On the same note- could the use of an oblique Pen holder be seen as a "cheat" in Copperplate, or is it all about the end result?

[bleair]

Early roundhand writing was done with a feather quill (so a bit of flex allowed for swells)

Actual engraved-on-copperplates for printing were carved, and it appears people who developed the skill learned how to vary their depth while making very graceful arcs

[Calligriophile]

Interesting video. I enjoyed it. I can't imagine using those tools, as I thought today's engravers all used Dremels.

[Erica McPhee]

This is absolutely fascinating! I want to learn how to do that! 

[Erica McPhee]

I know that oblique Pen Holders are the norm for Copperplate script now, but what did early Copperplate and Engrosser's script calligraphers use? I am far from great at Copperplate, but it kind of came easy to me because I was taught cursive penmanship by a really strict grade school teacher who made us slant our paper very similar to how we have to in copperplate, and I used a regular holder for a long time.
On the same note- could the use of an oblique Pen holder be seen as a "cheat" in Copperplate, or is it all about the end result?

To answer this question, most of the master penmen back in the day (Baird, Lupfer, Brown, etc.) used oblique holders. it was definitely not considered a cheat but the proper tool used to achieve the desired slant. And even though an oblique was used, the paper was still tilted to the left quite significantly. 

[Ergative]

Wow--that video is great! It's amazingly satisfying to watch the engraver tool create those curves with the little curlicues of metal twirdling off. It's like the inverse of the satisfaction we get from watching pens laying down glistening wet ink.

[JanisTX]

Wow!!  That video is amazing!  I had no idea people still did that by hand!

Janis