Shaken or Stirred?

[YokePenCo]

Thought of this from another post. I was curious what everyone else does in regards to their inks in shaking or stirring. So I'll start with my go to inks and what I do...

*Metallics - Shake
*Sumi - Use as it is
*Blotts - Use as is
*McCaffery's Black's & Blues - I turn upside down, very slowly, once before opening
*McCaffery's Colors (Ivory, Reds, Browns) - Shake
*Walnut Ink - Use as is
*Dr. Martins Bleed Proof White - Stir slowly
*Pelikan 4001 - Stir

[Estefa]

Haha – great topic. Here's what I do:

* Metallics – Shake
* McCaffery's black i.e. another iron gall ink I use – stir sometimes, use often as it is
* McCaffery's ivory – stir (at the moment …)
* Walnut ink – use as it is
* Dr. Martin's bleedproof: add some drops of distilled water, stir only surface, fill the liquid stuff with a pipette in Dinky Dip and use from this. This DD then lasts quite long as I put in again some distilled water etc. …
* Pelikan 4001 – use as it is (I am curious – that's a dye-based fountain pen ink as far as I know? So why do you stir it? It's just the most commenly used ink in Germany, I think, you can buy it in little plastic containers and put it in your fountain pen, school kids use it … so that's why I am soo curious )
* Rohrer & Klingner writing ink – put some drops of gum arabic in, then use as it is
* Ziller's ink – stir; sometimes thin it with some drops of distilled water

I don't have Sumi ink …

[YokePenCo]

Pelikan 4001 I stir for one reason, Zanerian Graduate and Master Penman Bill Lilly told me to, lol. I think it has to do with the mixture he uses, see below...

Its an ink preferred by him and his method involves adding ALOT of gum arabic to it to make it very "tight" (as he describes it). He literally pours (instead of just a few drops) a small amount into the ink. I keep mine mixed the same way for when I attempt his flourished script. It does super fine hairlines (even more-so than McCaffery's) when mixed his way, but you will often have issues starting it on the nib and hence why he uses the potato to poke his nib into.

I plan on going for a few more days of private instruction with him this spring or summer and hope to take a video camera with me and record him a little for future generations. Seeing the way he letters is amazing and very different than the methods of today.

[Brad franklin]

What about Higgins or Liquitex? May be in one of the list but I do not know.

[YokePenCo]

I only have 2 metallics golds for liquitex and never use them now since I discovered Finetec Golds. Not a personal fan of Higgins, I gave mine away to others which like it. So I don't have much experience with those two Brad.

[Brad franklin]

Well when i run out i dont think i will get anymore, i have fallen in love with sumi so i will stick with it unless something better comes along

[schin]

Pelikan 4001 I stir for one reason, Zanerian Graduate and Master Penman Bill Lilly told me to, lol. I think it has to do with the mixture he uses, see below...

Its an ink preferred by him and his method involves adding ALOT of gum arabic to it to make it very "tight" (as he describes it). He literally pours (instead of just a few drops) a small amount into the ink. I keep mine mixed the same way for when I attempt his flourished script. It does super fine hairlines (even more-so than McCaffery's) when mixed his way, but you will often have issues starting it on the nib and hence why he uses the potato to poke his nib into.

I plan on going for a few more days of private instruction with him this spring or summer and hope to take a video camera with me and record him a little for future generations. Seeing the way he letters is amazing and very different than the methods of today.

YES please take videos! It's so rare to see his work and he is such a treasure. Does he plan to publish a book? I'd love to see his work compiled into a book.

He pours gum arabic.. into a fountain pen ink? That's interesting! Does he use any other kind of ink?

[YokePenCo]

Schin, here ya go....

http://www.paperinkarts.com/engscr-dvd.html

http://www.paperinkarts.com/lillyb.html

The book above is probably the best example in print of how to write traditional engrossers script (copperplate)

He uses walnut ink, (where I got my recipe) and bleed proof white and the Pelikan Ink mostly. He's has a ton of other inks on his desk, but those are his "go-to" inks. He told me he finds black and blue boring and hates to use them if he can avoid it. His office is plastered from floor to ceiling covering all of the walls with examples of penmanship like you wouldn't believe. I am very fortunate to live only two hours from him and for him to invite me into his home for a few days last year. We spent time working on script and even turned a few holders while I was there.

He also wrote me instructions on how to do achieve his flourished script, letter by letter, with the agreement that I wouldn't openly share it until he can't teach anymore, lol.

[Estefa]

Pelikan 4001 I stir for one reason, Zanerian Graduate and Master Penman Bill Lilly told me to, lol. I think it has to do with the mixture he uses, see below...

Its an ink preferred by him and his method involves adding ALOT of gum arabic to it to make it very "tight" (as he describes it). He literally pours (instead of just a few drops) a small amount into the ink. I keep mine mixed the same way for when I attempt his flourished script. It does super fine hairlines (even more-so than McCaffery's) when mixed his way, but you will often have issues starting it on the nib and hence why he uses the potato to poke his nib into.

I plan on going for a few more days of private instruction with him this spring or summer and hope to take a video camera with me and record him a little for future generations. Seeing the way he letters is amazing and very different than the methods of today.

Ah, that sounds interesting and fascinating! I've tried in the past using a LOT of gum arabic with two Rohrer & Klingner writing inks (FP inks) which were terribly feathering. I think it works up to a point, for me I mean, when I use too much it feels just like writing with – well – gum ! Very similar to the Sennelier inks (shellack based) – they have so beautiful colours, but I don't get them to work with pointed pen.

But really interesting, I will give it a try with using the potato not only for new nibs!

That sounds wonderful to have lessons from such a legend as Bill Lilly! I do hope you will have the opportunity to post some of his lettering!

[Erica McPhee]

I use finetecs for gold and metallic pan paints so no stirring necessary.
Sumis and walnuts I gently agitate back and forth.
McCaffery's I gently shake and then say, "Darn it, why did I do that" every single time after I open it and it's bubbly.

If memory serves, I bought the Bill Lillly video and was amazed at how it seemed like he "sketched" the letters. I tried his technique and couldn't do it without making awful joins. I'll have to dig that out and see if I view it differently than I did when I first started learning!

[garyn]

Ah ha
Maybe that is the problem with my Speedball ink.
The Burnt Umber is liquidy and bubbly after I shake it, whereas the black and green are thicker.
I think I must have thick ink on the bottom and I need to STIR the burnt umber to get that think ink on the bottom to mix with the thinner water on top.

thanks guys

[YokePenCo]

You are correct Erica, when he letters it looks as if he is engraving on the paper. He produces the letters with what he calls "whips". Every stroke ending in a thin is a quick flicking motion to end the letter. In his words "Buddy, ya can't beat a good whip!". I tried to do it many times and it's difficult to do. I've never gotten it correct once.

[Erica McPhee]

I'm so happy you said that! I felt woefully inadequate after attempting it! 

[garyn]

You guys were right, thanks.

I used the end of a small spoon to stir the bottom of the bottle of Speedball burnt umber and...YUK.
I ran into caked ink on the bottom of the bottle.  It took a lot of poking and stirring to break up the caked ink on the bottom of the bottle.  Now the ink looks like the darker brown I was originally looking for, and not the light watery color it was. 

My prior shaking had not done anything, it took physical action of the spoon handle on the caked ink to get the ink to be the way they should be.

Now I need to check the bottom of my other bottles of Speedball ink to see if they caked.  Although the black and green inks are not watery, so I am hoping little to no caking.

[garyn]

A comment in the white ink thread made me think of a problem I had and the solution from my mother.
When you SHAKE the ink, the ink gets on the inside of the cap/cover.  You remove the cap and the ink flows to the edge of the cap, right where the top of the jar goes.  You screw on the cap and that ink on the cap gets on the top edge of the jar and drips down into the threads making the cap hard to remove.

My mother's solution which I am using on my Speedball ink is to get a plastic bag (sandwich bag, bread bag, etc) and cut a square out of it.  Do NOT shake the ink, open the cap and clean the top edge and threads of the jar, and the inside of the cap.  Then place the plastic square over the jar, screw down the cap.   Now when you shake, the plastic gets all the ink, not the cap.  If the plastic gets too messy, you can easily wipe it, or throw it away and put on a new piece of plastic.  Much less messy.   

FYI, my mother used this trick for things like jam jars, where the jam would always get on the thread of the jar making it hard to open (boys tend to be messy).  Although her earlier method of using wax paper works even better sometimes, as the wax keeps things from sticking to it.