Why Spencerian?

[Faeleia]

Your example, which strikes me as strongly reminiscent of Earl Lupfer's as reproduced in Zaners "Lessons in Ornamental Penmanship" book, is highly professional and does you credit.  Almost certainly your chosen method of reproduction belies the quality of your work, which, as it stands, has the look of Spencerian as written by someone who would far rather be writing copperplate.

This is not something we're going to agree on, Ken.  In my opinion there is a vast difference between the two styles, and what is desirable in the one is detrimental to the other.  I am not prepared to reproduce Mr Walker's work here without his express permission, but below is a photograph of a signature card by Lupfer.  (The total length of the inscription is 2¾" / 70mm approx).  It is my contention that delicacy of this order simply cannot be achieved by accuracy alone without brisk whole arm movement, and furthermore that Spencerian and its ornamental derivatives in their highest expression are essentially gestural in character.

Oh Luppy. That is so pretty. Makes me happy. Oh so swifty.

and difficult. I kind of am with Andy on this. I'm of the opinion that ornamental penmanship written quickly or not is not less of a discipline as copperplate. The fact that it is so diverse in itself as a genre offers me practically an endless material for study. Not knocking Engravers' script, but I do genuinely believe Spencerian isn't in any way, inferior, common, lesser, easier, more easily adaptable etc just because it is diverse in appearance, because at the root of things there are plenty of rules involved in this script, unlike true shorthand, regular handwriting. I do think that it allows for more injection of the writer's personality by how they interpret these rules in expressing the script however.

[Ken Fraser]

As always, your writing is amazing and a pleasure to study, thanks Ken!

Thank you, schin.

[Karen Dismukes]

Spencerian makes my heart skip a beat! I thought I read somewhere that I needed to learn copperplate before moving on to any other style so I've avoided even trying Spencerian while I learn copperplate. I'm working through Eleanor Winters Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy. Will I be making a huge mistake if I give it a try now?  Oh Spencerian, how I love thee!

[AndyT]

Will I be making a huge mistake if I give it a try now?  Oh Spencerian, how I love thee!

Some would say that the two styles are too similar for comfort.  They are, in fact, radically different, but it will probably take a while to pick up on all the nuances.

I say go for it, bearing in mind that the turns are tighter and the curves shallower, and that less is more when it comes to shading.  Any of the Spencer Brothers' textbooks will provide good exemplars, but I rather like the Payson, Dunton and Scribner Manual of Penmanship which is quite an interesting read, and very thorough.

[Erica McPhee]

Awesome resource Andy! I have added it to our new Library link!

[Ken Fraser]

approx).  ....Not knocking Engravers' script, but I do genuinely believe Spencerian isn't in any way, inferior, common, lesser, easier, more easily adaptable etc just because it is diverse in appearance, because at the root of things there are plenty of rules involved in this script.....

Once again, to each his own.

In general, I agree with the above statement. As regards easier or harder to learn than English Roundhand, that is surely subjective and will vary from person to person. In my own experience, Spencerian wasn't particularly difficult to learn, or to write.

My problem is that I don't like its appearance very much.
 
I'm sure that hardly any of the general public here in the UK would recognize Spencerian Script, never having been exposed to it before. As a consequence, in all my years as a calligrapher, I've never once been asked to write in the style...I'm glad to say.

It may seem contradictory, but in this thread, a few posts ago, I included a few examples of my Spencerian writing. This may seem masochistic, but I believe that, as a professional, completeness is important, and that I can write in all styles.

Ken

[Ken Fraser]

Will I be making a huge mistake if I give it a try now?  Oh Spencerian, how I love thee!

Some would say that the two styles are too similar for comfort.  They are, in fact, radically different, but it will probably take a while to pick up on all the nuances.

I say go for it.......

I would avoid attempting to learn the two styles at the same time. Better one, and then the other or the result may be confusion.

Just my opinion..... 

[AndyT]

I'm sure that hardly any of the general public here in the UK would recognize Spencerian Script, never having been exposed to it before.

This is true ... many seem to like it at first sight though.

[jeanwilson]

when i first went to IAMPETH, i remember talking to the rock stars about the differences and similarities
also, asking their opinion on learning both.
they all agreed that you do better to focus on one or the other rather than try to learn them both at the same time.
as a teacher, i try to get people to chose one or the other.
but, sometimes it is hard to decide - so a little back and forth doesn't hurt.
you want to find the one that feels best.
if you have been working on your copperplate for a while
and Spencerian is calling you, there is no harm in giving it a try.
but, i certainly would not spend 20 minutes a day on each one - every day - for an extended period of time.

another observation - most people who learn both will tell you that they are better at one or the other.
fewer scribes will say that they are equally good at both - and love them equally.
which is why i always encourage people to spend time with both -
that is the only way to find out if you have a natural feel for one or the other.

if you are interested in the envelope addressing business,
it is nice to study both so that you have options when someone has chosen a font that
is very clearly one or the other.

[Karen Dismukes]

I say go for it, bearing in mind that the turns are tighter and the curves shallower, and that less is more when it comes to shading.  Any of the Spencer Brothers' textbooks will provide good exemplars, but I rather like the Payson, Dunton and Scribner Manual of Penmanship which is quite an interesting read, and very thorough.

Thank you so much, Andy! I've now looked through and hope by my summer break I will be able to begin studying Spencerian!

Thank you, Erica, for adding it to the library land for all you do!

[Erica McPhee]

fewer scribes will say that they are equally good at both - and love them equally.

Really? I love them equally. I could never choose a favorite. I will say though I think my copperplate is better than my spencerian but only because I am out of practice and was never good at studying the letter forms. Now that I am, I can see all the areas I need to improve. My problem is I prefer to blend them. 

[Ibelli]

I am a new member...adding my two cents to the discussion.
Some of us may have very personal reasons for our love of Spencerian script. For me, Spencerian reminds me of my Grandmother's beautifully flowing handwriting which she learned in school in the early 1900's. When I practice and write this script, it seems as if I hold her memory in my hands.

[AndyT]

I've now looked through and hope by my summer break I will be able to begin studying Spencerian!

I wish you well with that, Karen.  Thinking about this last night it occurred to me that if you're going to be writing copperplate and Spencerian in tandem as it were, it might help if you kept separate pens for each, and chose nibs which feel different.  That should provide a useful tactile prompt to adapt your technique: so for instance you might settle on a Nikko for copperplate and a Gillott for Spencerian.

I do understand the objection to learning both at the same time, but if you start out with one and then fall in love with the other, it's a bit much to demand that you deny yourself. 

[sybillevz]

Choosing between spencerian and copperplate would be like choosing a favorite child !.... I've been impatient and decided to start spencerian after 5 months of copperplate practice, and I must admit that it's frustrating to be learning them both at the same time : when I concentrate on one, the other suffers obviously... So I'm learning more slowly but I still love both hands equally. Andy gave great advice to avoid confusion as much as possible.

Just one last advice : I learned spencerian with Harvest Crittenden, it was a 6 weeks online course and she told us not to write copperplate during that time... In my opinion that is the best advice I could give : as long as you are still learning the basic letterforms, don't even think about copperplate!

[Ken Fraser]

I do understand the objection to learning both at the same time, but if you start out with one and then fall in love with the other, it's a bit much to demand that you deny yourself.

Patience and self-discipline are wonderful virtues!