Author Topic: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate  (Read 34669 times)

Offline Estefa

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2014, 04:35:08 AM »
Baaah thank you, Natascha. It's just that my Copperplate practice proved to look nice much faster :/ yes, and I remember well ;D.

I also don't want to lose my normal, quirky handwriting lol I still need it
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Offline AndyT

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 08:43:08 AM »
I also don't want to lose my normal, quirky handwriting

That's at the back of my mind too.  So far, nothing to worry about, although my "p"s are just starting to take on a jaunty Spencerian swagger which I'm quite happy to live with.  Maybe there's nothing to worry about - John DeCollibus claims that his ordinary handwriting is "just not good".   ;)

Offline Estefa

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 09:55:24 AM »
I'd like to see that!! (But some people really do switch in a different gear when doing calligraphy. I am surely among them, because my normal handwriting is really, really fast (and often not very pretty), and calligraphy really, really slow )

Spencerian swagger p's sound funny ;).
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Offline Lori M

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2014, 04:49:27 AM »
Quote
But some people really do switch in a different gear when doing calligraphy. I am surely among them, because my normal handwriting is really, really fast (and often not very pretty)

I'm always trying to scribble stuff down as fast as possible also, in a mix of script and printing (whatever allows me to move the pen the least ;) ). I have noticed my handwriting getting a little rounder and less angular since practicing Copperplate, though.

Quote
my "p"s are just starting to take on a jaunty Spencerian swagger

I'd like to see some of those jaunty p's with swag, too!

Offline AndyT

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2014, 07:04:09 AM »
I blame C P Zaner for those "p"s.  In the "Lessons in Ornamental Penmanship" book he writes: "After making the up stroke, come to and below the line with a rush, stopping abruptly about two spaces below the line".

Never forgot that "rush".  So when a "p" is coming up I'm psyching myself up ready to pounce on it.  :)

Picture to follow when I get a chance.

Offline Faeleia

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2014, 03:47:43 AM »
I started with copperplate.. and it's surprisingly doable. Spencerian on the other hand are a different animal altogether. I thought copperplate basics would help in the slightest, but I found I have to do everything kind of differently. My drills are different, I still can't get the pretty shading, my loops are gross, I even hold the pen slightly differently to prevent angular loops. I'm always fearing of bending my right tine out of shape, I'd shift the paper here and there..the selective shading also makes it hard because I have to think clearly, where copperplate is kind of just meditative..

In copperplate, the gist is that you pull strokes towards you. In Spencerian, it looks like an upward lift, which makes my nib catch..

Spencerian is hard. But I'll get there. It takes most of you guys the better half of your lives to train, so I shouldn't complain when I'm barely one month into Spencerian.  :-\ Things worth having are never easy to attain. :)

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2014, 06:10:19 AM »
I started with copperplate.. and it's surprisingly doable. Spencerian on the other hand are a different animal altogether.

I found Spencerian a lot easier than Copperplate. Although basically the same materials are used, they are so different from each other, that comparisons are rather pointless IMO. However, my preference is for Copperplate.
Ken
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:05:31 AM by Ken Fraser »

Offline Milonguera

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2014, 10:18:04 AM »
Another great discussion here.  Ken your writing is stunning.  Thank you for sharing it.  And Andy, I'm looking forward to those "p's with swagger," too.  That made me laugh out loud.  Really!  I have 'issues with "p" that comes from nuns.  The first grade one taught to take to take the lead in stroke TO the waist?line, then the one in second grade insisted it go above.  This was in the days when penmanship was taught in school and we were graded on it. 

I haven't begun to look at Spencerian yet because I think I'd get confused trying to learn both Copperplate and that at the same time, but I think the flow will come very naturally, while the pointy, languid leaning of the letters may not.  And I didn't even know about Spencerian until my journey with Copperplate had begun.   

Please tell me if I've got it right that Spencerian looks much more like 'handwriting,' or that thing we do for correspondence, papers, or note taking.  I guess it seems more intimate and personal.  Copperplate on the other hand, looks to me more like the stuff of, sometimes but not always, formal presentation--something showy, grand or even pompous.  Was Copperplate per se ever used for correspondence?  Did the old masters write in both hands and if so, when did they choose to use them? 
Debbie

Offline Faeleia

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2014, 06:11:49 AM »
After this post I attacked Spencerian with all my might, it's getting easier :) When I'm satisfied I'll post something

Offline tintenfuchs

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2014, 11:37:45 AM »
After this post I attacked Spencerian with all my might, it's getting easier :) When I'm satisfied I'll post something
Challenge: ON!  ;D
Natascha
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Offline Lori M

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2014, 11:40:04 AM »
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Please tell me if I've got it right that Spencerian looks much more like 'handwriting,' or that thing we do for correspondence, papers, or note taking.

You've got it right, Debbie -- the Palmer method, which was taught in American school for many years, was developed from Spencerian.

I wonder what the handwriting of Jane Austen, Monet, or John Hancock and the other signers of the Declaration of Independence would be considered. Some of the signers had beautiful handwriting and thicks and thins going on.

Offline AndyT

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2014, 12:32:57 PM »
I can't put a name to the style, but I adore Jane Austen's handwriting.  Presumably it falls somewhere in the catch-all category of roundhand.

Offline Lori M

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2014, 01:47:20 PM »
That was my thought too, Andy. I don't know what, if any, other scripts there were in that period.

Offline Faeleia

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2014, 11:28:03 PM »
I can't put a name to the style, but I adore Jane Austen's handwriting.  Presumably it falls somewhere in the catch-all category of roundhand.

Sample of Austen's writing! I like her style of writing as well. Her stories are always so witty!

Oh god it's huge. Will it shrink in the forum?
After this post I attacked Spencerian with all my might, it's getting easier :) When I'm satisfied I'll post something
Challenge: ON!  ;D

Challenge off again until I find the right paper + ink combi to practice on. Those beautiful thinn hairlines only appear with thin ink and ink feathers horribly now I've tried to upgrade my papers to something less hobo "grab what paper is available in the house" style. Sigh. Ink and paper can make me feel happy and so sad.

Offline AndyT

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Re: Difficulty of Learning Spencerian vs. Copperplate
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2014, 07:12:43 AM »
There's a Jane Austen font.  It's a good illustration of why a typeface can't imitate informal handwriting satisfactorily - the designer has taken some pains to get the ligatures right and so forth, and most of the time it flows quite well, but every time I see that break in the "f" and the long crossbar on the "t", it trips me up and shouts "too consistent"!
« Last Edit: June 11, 2014, 07:18:16 AM by AndyT »