Author Topic: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate  (Read 55767 times)

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2016, 10:22:17 AM »
This is good work Ashok.

I hope this feedback is useful to you. I group i, u, w, t, l, b, and j together in my workshops. You can find more instructions in the link in my signature :-)

Regards,
Salman


Hi Salman,
Glad you liked the drills. @SMK.
There is definitely a feeling of achievement and really motivated to try out further.
The feedback was very detailed and let me try and incorporate these in my next drills.
The link you sent is awesome and quite elaborate with small tips that make as huge difference.
Even like lifting of the pen down at the baseline and then continuing with the hair line.
The illustration on the site makes it easier to understand. Im sure you will also be having a video demonstration.
And i would love to see that if available.

Thanks again Salman. Appreciate your time.

Regards,
Ashok


ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2016, 10:42:41 AM »

I am out of Pune right  now.  Will be getting back around the month end, and I shall send you info on making your own iron gall ink.
Send me a private message with you address, will send you the Walnut crystals.

Ashok

Hi @prasad

I think you need to send more of walnut crystals very soon.
Even though you have sent me plenty they are so amazingly good that i don't think I'm gonna stop writing :D
Right now i took half a teaspoon and i got a good 30ml. It fits well in a small broad mouth bottle and quite convenient to dip my oblique holder.

Here is how it looks.
Thank you so much for taking the trouble and sending me the crystals.

Ashok

Offline prasad

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2016, 10:57:30 AM »
So glad you like it. 

Not to worry about getting more.  I won a giveaway of Chris Yoke and got an Original vintage Zanerian Excelsior holder.(over a 100 years old)  @YokePenCo  His only request was to pay it forward.  So thanks to him and info from @AndyT I got a whole bunch of Vandyke crystals (great walnut ink) and am making packets of it for Indian calligraphers on this forum who can't get their hands on it. 

Will take till september for me to get my hands on it,  but I think the stuff I already sent you will last till then for sure ;)

Happy walnutting
-Prasad
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Offline jeanwilson

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2016, 12:47:32 PM »

I agree it tends to get a little boring, but i feel practising single alphabets have made me more disciplined.
Words are more fun and you find a nice rhythm and variation while you practice.

Been into advertising and from an art school. Im very much aware of the white space / negative spacing fundamentals as i apply them daily during my work. Its more to do with ad layouts which includes fonts, spacing, kerning etc. But as you rightly mentioned applying this to while you are doing it is a different ball game and needs lots of practice. Im definitely working towards it.

Thanks again jean and i appreciate you taking time while on a holiday.

Regards,
Ashok

i'm not the person who said it was boring to do one letter at a time. it's not about boring. if it is what you choose to do - maybe it will work for you. my opinion that groups of letters are a better use of your time is based on many years of teaching and observing the results. others forum members have said the same thing.

the white space i am talking about is exactly what you expressed - applied to the smallest details. once students apply the principle to the smallest details - they seem to get over the hump of making many pages of single letters. by looking at the exact triangle that is formed when an oval is curved between the horizontal and vertical (and slanted) guidelines, it becomes much easier to make the exact shape you see in the exemplar.

IMHO it is not a good idea to write a full page of the letter o and hope that a couple of them are exactly what you want. if you are looking at the shape inside the oval as well as the 4 triangular shapes on the outside - each o will be the same. it's probably helpful to point out that you should not start with an o - or an a (learning the letters in alphabetical order is IMHO a terrible way to proceed - and yet, i have seen people who insist on doing that way) i prefer working on the letter i first - so that you have fewer triangles to look at. with the i, you only have the straight line and two triangles. but this is exactly where you will master the process if you connect them. it's like riding a bike. if you imbed that stroke and the two curves in your mind - it is not going to disappear. but you have to slow down and be vigilant about the consistency. then move on to the next basic stroke - and gradually you have all the letters. there are other posts that recommend the sequence of letters.

again - i know there are plenty of people who have used different methods and become master penmen. i only offer these suggestions because i have had plenty of satisfied students.

i am not on holiday - i am out of town watching grandchildren - so i have time during naps to post - just no computer with a large enough screen to see details in examples.

i hope your enthusiasm is contagious and that others will post their work too. it will be very interesting to watch your progress and get your opinion on which of the suggestions end up being the most helpful.  down the road, your perspective will be valuable to others.



ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2016, 02:35:58 PM »
Hi @jeanwilson

Apologies for the wrong choice of words in the beginning.

I also started with random alphabets when I started couple of months back and was not introduced to this amazing forum.
It is lately that i got to know about the Group of letters to start practising with, thanks to you, @SMK & @prasad for helping with the necessary videos and practise sheets. I will keep in mind about consistency and perfecting group of letters in the order experts recommend.

If you ask me now it doesn't look like Im going to stop. Im getting back to my walnut ink and Hunt 101 before i go to bed.
I hope you and grandchildren are having a great time together. I will take your leave.

Thanks a lot for taking time Jean.
Regards,
Ashok

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2016, 06:18:26 PM »
Hi @SMK, @jeanwilson

Here are my today's practice sheets.
While doing these i had kept in mind the suggestions and advice that you had.
I have also ticked the ones that i felt were better in terms of spacing, character form, consistency etc.

Found a nice quote while going through, 'New Standard Practical Penmanship' and couldn't stop myself from writing it down :D
Have a look. Will appreciate your valuable comments and critique on them as always.

Regards,
Ashok

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2016, 11:32:12 PM »
Great improvement @ash0kgiri - it is clear that you are seeing the good ones and know what to look for. You might want to start squaring the tops on a regular basis now that the strokes are flowing more fluidly (like you did in 'jilt').

Some of the words were too heavy (e.g. 'jilt'). The 'tilt' you have ticked as a good one is about as heavy as you want to go.

The slant is still varying but it is much less often than before and it seems to me you are immediately aware of it. I think it is time to move on to the next set of letters based on the inverted 'i' and the compound stroke (as the two strokes of 'n'). The letters in this group are n, m, h, y, p and v.

I will be looking forward to some words using all the letters in the two groups :-)

Regards,
Salman
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ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2016, 12:06:19 AM »
Hi @SMK

Cant thank you enough for your kind words and motivation. I usually make sure that i square off the tops, thats kind of habit I'm trying to put in place. Since i had change my nib to what you had recommended in your link i.e Brause 66EF. I was trying to see how flexible it can be that's the reason you could see the variation in thickness. But you are right my comfort zone is the 'tilt' thickness.

Hope work doesn't come in the way of words. Its been a crazy working weekend. But will be troubling you with more practise sheets for sure. :D

Regards,
Ashok

ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2016, 11:39:59 PM »
Hi @SMK

Practice sheet for today. Worked on Group 2 letters and words combining both groups.
As yesterday i have ticked the onces which i have liked. And also my corrections in the one which i don't.
I was having a bit of difficulty in joining 'u' to 'n' or 'i' to 'n' were you need to continue the round loop onto the next one.
If you could show me how its done.

Im still going off with my slant angles. And its because Im working with a guide-sheet underneath a writing pad. Will try and correct those.
Getting used to the nib change so the shades are inconsistent. That's my observation

Would appreciate if you could let me know your opinion.

Thanks,
Regards
Ashok
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 11:49:25 PM by ash0kgiri »

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2016, 12:40:54 AM »
Wow Ashok - I don't think I have ever seen anyone produce such lovely work this quickly. This is indeed excellent Copperplate. You should be well pleased with yourself for this effort.

I will pick a couple of 'nits' as that is all you have left for me to pick :-)

You have a tendency to make the top part of the compound stroke a bit too thin. Look at the 'n' in the first 'nymph' - the tops of the two strokes should be identical - the first inverted 'i' is done well but the compound stroke begins a bit too slanted causing the top of the counter inside the 'n' to become too thin - do you see it?

Also, there is very slight curve in the shaded stroke of the compound curve. Think of it as the top part being an inverted 'i' and the bottom a regular 'i' that are joined in the middle - there should be no curve in this stroke.

The joins for letters that bring the hairline to the waist line are a bit tricky. However, you have correctly figured out how to make this join steeper than usual to maintain good spacing.

Pay attention to the waist and base lines and hit them every time - don't turn around before you are there.

Please move on to the third group of 'o' letters: o, c, e, a, d, g, q and form some words with it.

Salman
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 10:46:19 AM by Erica McPhee »
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ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2016, 02:20:48 AM »
Hi @SMK,

This is the greatest compliment I have ever got in my life. And I'm so happy to read this. I kind of patted by back after reading this post :D
But this would be impossible without your guidance. Thanks for been patient and putting some discipline into my writing.

I agree the top part of compound stroke is thin and i don't know why it didn't bother me :(
Will keep in mind not to have a curve in the shaded curve of the compound curve. Its just that you get an illusion that its a little curvy but thanks for clarifying.

Need more practise on words connecting 'u' to 'n' with the example you have shared.
Are you sure I should move onto the next group? I was planning to practise these for a day or two more.

And if you can share your link with Group 3 letters. It really helped me a lot.

Thanks for taking time Salman. Can wait for today's practise sessions. Will let you know how it goes.

Regards,
Ashok

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2016, 05:02:07 AM »
You are most welcome Ashok - you do deserve that pat on the back.

Another thing I just noticed in the practice sheet above is that your spacing after a compound stroke seems to be a bit too tight. This appears after an 'h' as well as a 'p' - something to keep in mind while practising :-)

Salman
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 10:46:38 AM by Erica McPhee »
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

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ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2016, 05:28:20 AM »
Hi @SMK

Thanks for sharing Salman. That would be really helpful for me to compare. The previous ones have definitely helped me.

Point noted on the tight spacing bit. Just wanted to ask you if there is any measurement that should be kept in mind while spacing or its
visual more than technical?

Regards,
Ashok

Offline prasad

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #58 on: July 26, 2016, 06:00:38 AM »
Just wanted to ask you if there is any measurement that should be kept in mind while spacing or its
visual more than technical?

Regards,
Ashok

Hi Ashok.
What you have accomplished in a few days took me over a year and I am still not there  :)  Awesome work.

When you make guidelines, the slants are spaced half of the x-height.  For most letters, widths are :
Lead in stoke (half x-height)
Letter (Half x-height)
Lead out/connector stroke (half x-height)

This is the advice I was given on here.  But I still have a long way  to go.  As you can see, missed touching the base line on the a and o  :)
Check out the below image. 

Happy writing
-Prasad
Never be afraid to try something new
Remember - An amateur built the Ark and Professionals built the Titanic
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ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2016, 06:35:22 AM »
Hi Prasad,

Thats really motivating to get compliments from a senior member. Thanks for the kind words.
Wonderful demonstration. Appreciate your time for taking the effort and sharing. Will print my slant angles accordingly.

Thanks again,
Ashok