Flourish Forum

General Categories => Tools & Supplies => Topic started by: Erica McPhee on February 26, 2014, 10:24:01 PM

Title: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 26, 2014, 10:24:01 PM
PLEASE NOTE: I no longer recommend the Hiro 41 nib due to production issues.


List of supplies I recommend on (affiliate link):  Paper & Ink Arts (https://myaccount.paperinkarts.com/mod_myRewards/referralWelcome.php?referralCode=RBXCGL)

List of supplies I recommend on (affiliate link):  John Neal Bookseller (http://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/891).

Paper & Ink Arts:

item # spdper - Oblique Red or Blue Peerless Holder
OR
item # peerls - Peerless Oblique Holder
 
item # walbot –Walnut Ink, 2.6 oz.
item # moonpa – Moon Palace Sumi Ink
item #drmbld – Dr. PH Martin’s bleedproof white (optional)
 
item # nikkoG - Nikko G nibs (5)
item # hnt101 - Hunt 101 nibs (5)
 
item #dinkyd – Dinky Dips 4 square

The total cost is roughly $50 including the bleedproof white.

From John Neal:

H95. Speedball Deluxe (Comfort Grip) Oblique Pen Holders – sized for Nikko G.
OR
H96. Peerless Oblique Holders (Black Plastic) – sized for Nikko G
 
N113. Nikko G Nib (5)
N77. Hunt 101 Nib (5)
 
I53-2.5. Walnut Drawing Ink
I70. Moon Palace Sumi Ink, 2 oz.
I38. Dr. Martin's Bleed Proof White Ink (optional)
 
S852. Small Dinky Dips (S304)

Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Marilou Marshall on March 12, 2014, 04:00:44 PM
Hello Erica, Will sumi ink or walnut ink dry waterproof for addressing envelopes? I made a mistake and used Higgins Eternal on addressing an envelope and it bled like crazy! Would you have an ink to recommend? How about envelopes? I bought the Value Pack envelopes/card from Michaels and the envelopes are quite thin. Should I try using a fixative on the envelopes or just order some envelopes at envelopes.com. Need your advice! Thanks, Marilou
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: jamiemateo on March 12, 2014, 06:55:57 PM
This is very Helpful! Thanks a lot Erica  ;)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on March 13, 2014, 03:10:37 PM
Hi Marilou,
Higgins does tend to bleed more than others. A lot depends on the sizing of the envelope, too. Sumi or Walnut are not waterproof. There are a couple threads which may help.

 Bleeding Envelopes (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=102.msg566#msg566)
 Waterproofing Envelopes (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=325.msg2746#msg2746)

I hope that helps!  :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: JanisTX on April 24, 2014, 12:12:27 PM
Hi, Erica!

How about recommending practice paper, as well?
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on April 24, 2014, 12:28:27 PM
Hi, Erica!

How about recommending practice paper, as well?

Hi Janis and welcome to the forum!

Check out the Favorite Practice Paper (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=209) discussion, there's some good recommendations in there.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: theinkrefinery on June 23, 2014, 10:40:12 PM
Does anyone know of any online stores that ship to Australia? I live in Brisbane and I'm having trouble tracking these recommended supplies down! Much appreciated!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Moya on June 23, 2014, 10:50:40 PM
Hi inkrefinery!! I'm in Melbourne, but used to live in Brisbane.  I wish I did today - it's so cold and windy down here! :)

PaperInkArts has very reasonable shipping to Australia, and usually arrives within two weeks (although sometimes it can take up to four).

I would not recommend buying paper online though - because it's so heavy, the shipping cost outweighs the price savings, usually.  There is (or used to be!) an Eckersley's in the city that sold bleedproof pads, which are great for practice (around $10 each), or you can get Rhodia pads from the Pen Shoppe if you prefer.  Eckersleys or the little independent art shops are great for gouache as well.  I often get little jars and mixing toys from places like the Reject Shop though - I don't need high quality in my plastic tubs and art stores charge a LOT!

The Pen Shoppe in the Brisbane Arcade used to have a fairly wide selection of broad nibs, but very light on the pointed pen selection.  I'm not sure about the one that used to be on Elizabeth Street - they're bigger, so maybe ask there!  But nibs tend to be marked up a lot by the time they make it over here, and they are usually quite cheap to ship - I buy all my nibs online. 

John Neal Books also ships to Australia, but they take some time to calculate the shipping price and they are not as simple to deal with as PIA.  I like to know in advance what shipping will cost. 

Good luck! :)

Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: theinkrefinery on June 23, 2014, 11:59:10 PM
Thanks so much for your reply Moya! That's all really helpful. I hadn't realised PaperInkArts ships to Australia!

Now this is going to sound really dim… but is there a way to turn on notifications so that I know when someone replies to a post that I have commented on? I just saw this reply by accident (I'm completely new to this forum business, I'm fumbling around like a baby learning to walk).

But back on topic – I appreciate your tips and will give PIA a go. I found Eckersley's range not as impressive.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Moya on June 24, 2014, 01:10:27 AM
Yeah, unfortunately I don't know of any calligraphy-specific suppliers in Brisbane (and only one in Melbourne - though if you are passing through, I can recommend them to you). A lot if it is only available online and from the US.

I'm a fan of PIA though - they've never been anything but prompt and responsive for me. :)

There is a button at the top of each page labelled 'notify', but I'm not actually sure how well or if it works - I'm on here often enough that I just check the 'unread threads since your last visit' page each time I log on and work through that, and refresh it every so often.  I seem to catch most replies that way. :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: katianaval on June 24, 2014, 06:07:59 AM
Hi Erica, I think you may have mentioned on one of your comments before about the Hiro 41 dumping ink. Are you guys still experiencing this? We buy this every month for the store but never heard anyone complain yet, and my personal stash of new Hiro 41's are doing okay.

I bought mine from PIA. Hope everything's solved.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: JanisTX on June 25, 2014, 11:27:00 AM
I have been using some that I bought from PIA and half of them work & the other half either won't take ink or dump/puddle ink.  I'm cranky about it!!  Going back to my old stand-by, the Brause 66EF!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: garyn on June 25, 2014, 05:31:16 PM
Katia
I would email PIA and ask them. 
Emphasise that you are in the Philippines, and that shipping replacments to you to replace bad nibs would be expensive.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on June 25, 2014, 10:14:09 PM
I just ordered some two weeks ago and the batch I received definitely is better. Still not 100% though. They take a little bit longer to break in and for that weird finish to wear off. But nothing as bad as it was.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: PatzyMD on July 09, 2014, 03:03:01 AM
Hello, :D
I'm new to the art and I'm a left-handed writer, just wanna ask if it is advisable to buy a left-handed oblique holder? Or will the usual work just as fine?
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: patweecia on July 09, 2014, 03:26:02 AM
Hello, :D
I'm new to the art and I'm a left-handed writer, just wanna ask if it is advisable to buy a left-handed oblique holder? Or will the usual work just as fine?

Hi Patzy,  I'm not a leftie but I've read that you can use the regular nib holders as well :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on July 09, 2014, 03:33:30 AM
Me neither, but theoretically being left handed should confer an advantage when it comes to writing slanted styles - which must come as a pleasant surprise.  :)  A straight holder may well be fine, Patzy, but you could always get a basic Speedball oblique to experiment with because those can be used either way up.  Might come in handy for upright scripts, funnily enough.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on July 09, 2014, 12:06:47 PM
Also depends what kind of lefty you are, i've got friends with some interesting lefty writing arm positions  :o
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on July 09, 2014, 05:44:23 PM
That's true, I got talking to a lefthanded over-writer recently.  Very strange indeed - what do you do?  Use a right handed oblique holder, angle the paper like a right hander ... and write upside down?   ???
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: PatzyMD on July 25, 2014, 02:47:58 PM
Hello, :D
I'm new to the art and I'm a left-handed writer, just wanna ask if it is advisable to buy a left-handed oblique holder? Or will the usual work just as fine?

Hi Patzy,  I'm not a leftie but I've read that you can use the regular nib holders as well :)

Thank you! I'm currently using a straight nib holder and am experimenting on a variety of nibs. I always fear the upstrokes, it seems like the  nibs are going to snap in half... it snags the paper when I write. Maybe I'm holding it the wrong way..? >m<
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: PatzyMD on July 25, 2014, 03:02:53 PM
Me neither, but theoretically being left handed should confer an advantage when it comes to writing slanted styles - which must come as a pleasant surprise.  :)  A straight holder may well be fine, Patzy, but you could always get a basic Speedball oblique to experiment with because those can be used either way up.  Might come in handy for upright scripts, funnily enough.

Thank you! I decided to buy a straight holder and I'm now using it for practice :D though I'm having some snagging problems (I'll be able to get over it with practice, I hope). I do have a slanted penmanship but it's hard to maintain when I'm using a dip pen. Without the warm-ups, I always end up with combined slants and uprights. And I always get smudges. But I'm having fun learning. XD
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Ergative on July 25, 2014, 03:19:58 PM
Patzy, I had some terrible problems with snagging when I first started. My suggestions:

1. Make sure the paper you have is very very very smooth! It was a revelation when I finally switched to a Rhodia pad and everything suddenly got better.
2. Get a nib that's known for being smooth. The Gillott 303, which I started with, is pretty snaggy. The Nikko G, which I'm using now, is incredibly smooth.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: PatzyMD on July 25, 2014, 03:42:53 PM
Patzy, I had some terrible problems with snagging when I first started. My suggestions:

1. Make sure the paper you have is very very very smooth! It was a revelation when I finally switched to a Rhodia pad and everything suddenly got better.
2. Get a nib that's known for being smooth. The Gillott 303, which I started with, is pretty snaggy. The Nikko G, which I'm using now, is incredibly smooth.

so it's the paper that I need to change rather than the nib holder..? I'll take note of that. I was thinking that since I'm left handed, maybe I'm positioning the nib incorrectly, which brought the idea of getting the left-handed holder.
Anyways, I'll probably try Nikko G too. Thank you very much! :D
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: PatzyMD on July 25, 2014, 03:45:05 PM
Also depends what kind of lefty you are, i've got friends with some interesting lefty writing arm positions  :o

Oh, I think I'm an overwriter. And yes, some lefties have not-so-ordinary writing positions. Even the grip is weird sometimes. X)
I'm currently practicing with a straight holder but there is inconsistency with the slants...and smudges.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on July 25, 2014, 03:47:12 PM
It can be a combination of nib/paper/angle but a sharp nib tends to cause beginners problems (happened to me!). Something like the Gillott 303, Brause 66 EF or Principal is better saved till after you get used to having a lighter hand. Although all of those are good at forcing you to have a light touch.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: PatzyMD on July 25, 2014, 04:07:24 PM
It can be a combination of nib/paper/angle but a sharp nib tends to cause beginners problems (happened to me!). Something like the Gillott 303, Brause 66 EF or Principal is better saved till after you get used to having a lighter hand. Although all of those are good at forcing you to have a light touch.

Snags! XD
More practice will make it better. I have Brause 66 EF and it's the only nib that works for me. But it makes sense that I have to work on the light strokes first. Thank you very much! :D
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: garyn on July 28, 2014, 01:15:13 AM
@PatzyMD
A couple good practice paper that I've used are:
- Staples, Sustainable Earth 20# sugar cane paper.  It may not feel that smooth, but my nibs do not snag in this paper, under normal writing.
- HP 32# premium.  Some people say this is similar to Clairefontaine, but a lot cheaper.

Developing a light touch is HARD.  But if you keep at it, you will get there.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Veronica. H on August 10, 2014, 12:03:42 AM
Hi,

Does anybody use  Rohrer & Klingner Calligraphy Ink before or their Antik ink?
I learned that they are an old ink manufacturer from Germany since 1892.

I searched online regarding the ink review vs Dr. ph martin, Higgins and other calligraphy inks such as Mc Caffery's and etc but couldn't find any.
I am curious about Rohrer & Klingner's ink consistency and quality when you use it with pointed nibs. Do they produce a fine thin lines?

Anyone care to share?

Thanks!

-Veronica-

Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Cam N. on January 09, 2015, 11:12:52 PM
I just ordered some two weeks ago and the batch I received definitely is better. Still not 100% though. They take a little bit longer to break in and for that weird finish to wear off. But nothing as bad as it was.

Do you think they have fixed the problem yet? I am using that nib now, and am experiencing problems with it. I bought it back in June/July of last year in case you are wondering.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on January 10, 2015, 01:08:20 AM
Hi Cam,
I think they are better but not like they were way back when. Perhaps they changed what they are using to coat them or something. I find I have to work hard to take the coating off. But then they work as they should.  :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Cam N. on January 10, 2015, 12:53:40 PM
Hi Cam,
I think they are better but not like they were way back when. Perhaps they changed what they are using to coat them or something. I find I have to work hard to take the coating off. But then they work as they should.  :)

How can we tell if the coating is off? Is there a change in the physical appearance or we can just tell by the strokes that it makes?
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: JanisTX on January 10, 2015, 01:36:23 PM
Cam, if the oil is not off, you cannot keep ink on the nib. - It won't "gather" on the underside of the nib, above the tines & below the breather hole.  Instead, it will slide right off the nib.  It doesn't take much to get the oil off. - You can spit on it, if you don't mind that.  Or, dip the nip in rubbing alcohol & then rinse in running water.  You should be then good to go!  If you prep your nib BEFORE you insert it in the nib holder, then you may get more oil (from your fingers) on the nib, which will once again cause it to resist ink.  I use some small jewelry-making pliers to insert my nibs, so I keep my hands completely off of them after they are prepared.

Post back if you still have any questions!

Janis
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Sarah Foutz on January 10, 2015, 01:42:31 PM
I use some small jewelry-making pliers to insert my nibs, so I keep my hands completely off of them after they are prepared.


Janis

I have some of those laying around, what a great idea, thanks!! (not to mention I'm always worried I'm going to seriously hurt myself one day if I keep using my fingers!)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: mgc213717 on January 12, 2015, 09:11:15 AM
Is there a classified section on this forum? I would love to purchase some used tools off someone's hands if anyone is looking to get rid of anything (i.e., half empty bottles of ink, etc).
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: papercrew on January 25, 2015, 02:54:45 PM
These are the beginning supplies I recommend. John Neal has it up on his site already here:  Flourish Forum List (http://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/891).

Paper & Ink Arts is working on it. If you order from Paper & Ink Arts, it would be grand if you used my referral link:  Paper & Ink Arts (http://myaccount.paperinkarts.com/mod_referralRewards/welcome.php?referralCode=RBXCGL)

From Paper & Ink Arts:

item # spdper - Oblique Red or Blue Peerless Holder
OR
item # peerls - Peerless Oblique Holder
 
item # walbot –Walnut Ink, 2.6 oz.
item # moonpa – Moon Palace Sumi Ink
item #drmbld – Dr. PH Martin’s bleedproof white (optional)
 
item # hiro41 – Hiro 41 nibs (5) Please note - we are currently seeing problems with this nib. Will update when it is resolved.)

item # nikkoG - Nikko G nibs (5)
 
item #dinkyd – Dinky Dips 4 square

The total cost is roughly $50 including the bleedproof white.

From John Neal:

H95. Speedball Deluxe (Comfort Grip) Oblique Pen Holders – sized for Nikko G.
OR
H96. Peerless Oblique Holders (Black Plastic) – sized for Nikko G
 
N113. Nikko G Nib (5)
N82. Hiro Crown Nib (#41)  (5) (Please note - we are currently seeing problems with this nib. Will update when it is resolved.)
 
I53-2.5. Walnut Drawing Ink
I70. Moon Palace Sumi Ink, 2 oz.
I38. Dr. Martin's Bleed Proof White Ink (optional)
 
S852. Small Dinky Dips (S304)

Do you have a book list that was used in your Lesson 1? I can't seem to navigate around the forum to find it. Thank you in advance!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: EllenMarieM on January 27, 2015, 06:59:19 PM
I have bought a TON of nibs to try out, and I've been trying to use the Nikko G and Zebra G the most since they are so frequently recommended for beginners. But do they seem super HARD to anyone else? I feel like maybe I don't know what I'm supposed to be feeling but I feel like i have to apply SO MUCH pressure to get the nib to flex... its just not a pleasurable experience for me. I mostly use the Gillott 404... any suggestions on what else to use if I love this one?? Thanks!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on January 27, 2015, 08:06:48 PM
Yes the G nibs require more pressure than most nibs, it's also why they last a long time. If you get a chance to try the Titanium Zebra G you might find it flex easier, it's easily becoming a favorite of many calligraphers (still a stiffer nib but a bit less so from my experience). I'm not sure if the Hiro 41 is still on a bad batch but many people like that as well.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on January 28, 2015, 04:05:03 AM
I mostly use the Gillott 404... any suggestions on what else to use if I love this one??

If you like the 404 that's no bad thing, since they're inexpensive and easily available.  You might find the Hunt 101 enjoyable, which is quite soft without being a prima donna; and it would be worth getting a couple of Gillott 170s to try.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on January 28, 2015, 08:11:46 AM

Do you have a book list that was used in your Lesson 1? I can't seem to navigate around the forum to find it. Thank you in advance!

If you go to the forum homepage:  Flourish (http://theflourishforum.com/), down on the bottom right, there are links set up to access the books I recommend. For the lessons, I followed my own handouts but these are based (roughly) off the lessons in Eleanor Winter's Mastering Copperplate book, which is the text I recommend.
Clickable link:
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Blotbot on January 28, 2015, 10:01:35 AM
I had a calligraphy teacher that referred to the Eleanor Winters style as "hillbilly" and said IAMPETH was the only source to use.  I like the Winters book and still fine it very helpful.  To each his own....
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: schin on January 28, 2015, 02:39:48 PM
I had a calligraphy teacher that referred to the Eleanor Winters style as "hillbilly" and said IAMPETH was the only source to use.  I like the Winters book and still fine it very helpful.  To each his own....

That's.. blasphemy!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Judy G on January 28, 2015, 02:52:19 PM
I had a calligraphy teacher that referred to the Eleanor Winters style as "hillbilly" and said IAMPETH was the only source to use.  I like the Winters book and still fine it very helpful.  To each his own....

 :o :o :o That book is like my bible!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Cam N. on January 31, 2015, 11:08:50 AM
Cam, if the oil is not off, you cannot keep ink on the nib. - It won't "gather" on the underside of the nib, above the tines & below the breather hole.  Instead, it will slide right off the nib.  It doesn't take much to get the oil off. - You can spit on it, if you don't mind that.  Or, dip the nip in rubbing alcohol & then rinse in running water.  You should be then good to go!  If you prep your nib BEFORE you insert it in the nib holder, then you may get more oil (from your fingers) on the nib, which will once again cause it to resist ink.  I use some small jewelry-making pliers to insert my nibs, so I keep my hands completely off of them after they are prepared.

Post back if you still have any questions!

Janis

Does that mean I have to prepare the nib every time I use it? Also, how do I take care of them so they won't rust?
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on January 31, 2015, 01:23:09 PM
Does that mean I have to prepare the nib every time I use it? Also, how do I take care of them so they won't rust?

Nope, just the once when it's new.  Just avoid touching it with your fingers and you should be fine.  If you feel that the nib isn't taking ink as well as it might after that, a dip in or wipe with surgical spirit (rubbing alcohol) is the modern way to take care of that.  The old school method - licking it - also works well.  :)

As for rust, that's more of a problem in humid climates I guess, but if you make sure the nib is dry before putting the pen away that ought to do.  The wisdom amongst woodworkers is that tools which are used everyday don't rust - and it's true.  So don't give it time!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Chandra on February 05, 2015, 06:25:38 AM
Hey there,
I'm using Nikko G and Brause steno at the moment.
I'm feeling uncomfortable that i need to press quite hard for the Nikko G and i love the way Brause feels easier to press.
Does this mean i have a light hand ? Sorry if it's a dumb question , i'm still a newbie.
Please do recommend me some nibs to shop for , i'm currently interested in purchasing Brause EF 66, Leaonardt EF Principal, Esterbrook 355, Hiro 700 and Gillott 1950 Nib.
I'm currently using an speedball oblique , and am thinking about the peerless oblique holder recommended by Erica , and would love to also buy Hourglass Adjustable Oblique because of all the post of people loving it. Please do share with me your opinions  :)

Regards,
Chandra
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: garyn on February 05, 2015, 10:13:53 PM
Chandra
You will NEED to get another oblique holder.  The Speedball holder will only fit one size of nibs.  The oblique holders with a brass flange can be adjusted to fit different size nibs.  In my case I adjust the holder to fit a size (Nikko G) and leave it alone, I have a 2nd oblique holder for a different size nib (Esterbrook 556).   This is to avoid having to adjust the holder for a different nib in the middle of a writing session.  I just grab the holder that fits the nib I want to use...easy.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Chandra on February 05, 2015, 10:40:49 PM
These are the beginning supplies I recommend. John Neal has it up on his site already here:  Flourish Forum List (http://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/891).

Paper & Ink Arts is working on it. If you order from Paper & Ink Arts, it would be grand if you used my referral link:  Paper & Ink Arts (http://myaccount.paperinkarts.com/mod_referralRewards/welcome.php?referralCode=RBXCGL)

From Paper & Ink Arts:

item # spdper - Oblique Red or Blue Peerless Holder
OR
item # peerls - Peerless Oblique Holder
 
item # walbot –Walnut Ink, 2.6 oz.
item # moonpa – Moon Palace Sumi Ink
item #drmbld – Dr. PH Martin’s bleedproof white (optional)
 
item # hiro41 – Hiro 41 nibs (5) Please note - we are currently seeing problems with this nib. Will update when it is resolved.)

item # nikkoG - Nikko G nibs (5)
 
item #dinkyd – Dinky Dips 4 square

The total cost is roughly $50 including the bleedproof white.

From John Neal:

H95. Speedball Deluxe (Comfort Grip) Oblique Pen Holders – sized for Nikko G.
OR
H96. Peerless Oblique Holders (Black Plastic) – sized for Nikko G
 
N113. Nikko G Nib (5)
N82. Hiro Crown Nib (#41)  (5) (Please note - we are currently seeing problems with this nib. Will update when it is resolved.)
 
I53-2.5. Walnut Drawing Ink
I70. Moon Palace Sumi Ink, 2 oz.
I38. Dr. Martin's Bleed Proof White Ink (optional)
 
S852. Small Dinky Dips (S304)

Hey there Erica,
Is the Hiro 41 problem solved ? I would like to try the nib and am thinking of purchasing 3 pcs.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 08, 2015, 07:35:01 PM
I have found it hit or miss. Some are good, some not so much. I'd stick with the Nikko G as a starter nib.  ;)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 08, 2015, 07:39:11 PM
I had a calligraphy teacher that referred to the Eleanor Winters style as "hillbilly" and said IAMPETH was the only source to use.  I like the Winters book and still fine it very helpful.  To each his own....

LOL! I am just now seeing this. Hillbilly! So you're saying he was a non-judgmental type? Ha Ha! What can I say... it's a really typical script.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 08, 2015, 07:45:31 PM
I have bought a TON of nibs to try out, and I've been trying to use the Nikko G and Zebra G the most since they are so frequently recommended for beginners. But do they seem super HARD to anyone else? I feel like maybe I don't know what I'm supposed to be feeling but I feel like i have to apply SO MUCH pressure to get the nib to flex... its just not a pleasurable experience for me. I mostly use the Gillott 404... any suggestions on what else to use if I love this one?? Thanks!

If you really like the Gillott 404, try the 303. Also, I'd suggest trying the Hunt 101 and Hunt 56. I find the Hunt 56 to be closest to the Nikko G except more flexible. However, the older nibs do tend to skip more.

If you work with the Nikko G's they "warm up" after a bit and are less stiff and easier to work with. I always dread the change over to a new nib as they are stiff to get started. But then once warmed up glide well.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 08, 2015, 07:47:37 PM
Chandra, there are 8 pages of nib discussion here:  My Favorite Nibs for Pointed Pen (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=10.0)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Chandra on February 08, 2015, 10:27:39 PM
I have bought a TON of nibs to try out, and I've been trying to use the Nikko G and Zebra G the most since they are so frequently recommended for beginners. But do they seem super HARD to anyone else? I feel like maybe I don't know what I'm supposed to be feeling but I feel like i have to apply SO MUCH pressure to get the nib to flex... its just not a pleasurable experience for me. I mostly use the Gillott 404... any suggestions on what else to use if I love this one?? Thanks!

If you really like the Gillott 404, try the 303. Also, I'd suggest trying the Hunt 101 and Hunt 56. I find the Hunt 56 to be closest to the Nikko G except more flexible. However, the older nibs do tend to skip more.

If you work with the Nikko G's they "warm up" after a bit and are less stiff and easier to work with. I always dread the change over to a new nib as they are stiff to get started. But then once warmed up glide well.

I also felt the same with Ellen and guess i'll give my Nikko G some warm up first and see how it goes ! I'm still sticking to my Brause Blue Pumpkin at the moment !
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Chandra on February 08, 2015, 10:28:24 PM
Chandra, there are 8 pages of nib discussion here:  My Favorite Nibs for Pointed Pen (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=10.0)

Yeah i have read through them :)
Thanks Erica
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Judy G on February 12, 2015, 03:36:30 PM
Is the Hiro 41 problem solved ? I would like to try the nib and am thinking of purchasing 3 pcs.

Like what Erica said, it's really a hit or miss. The first time I bought (3 weeks ago), it was a miss. So I tried my luck again and bough a few more...sadly, they're all defective.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: JanisTX on February 12, 2015, 03:46:48 PM
I had a calligraphy teacher that referred to the Eleanor Winters style as "hillbilly" and said IAMPETH was the only source to use.  I like the Winters book and still fine it very helpful.  To each his own....

LOL! I am just now seeing this. Hillbilly! So you're saying he was a non-judgmental type? Ha Ha! What can I say... it's a really typical script.

Eleanor Winters is a Hillbilly?? Holy smoke!  That person is a moron!  She has beautiful, traditional Copperplate & I still pull out her book on an almost daily basis!  I probably have 30 calligraphy books & it's the only one that I would immediately replace if something happened to it!!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: prasad on February 12, 2015, 11:23:58 PM
I had a calligraphy teacher that referred to the Eleanor Winters style as "hillbilly" and said IAMPETH was the only source to use.  I like the Winters book and still fine it very helpful.  To each his own....

LOL! I am just now seeing this. Hillbilly! So you're saying he was a non-judgmental type? Ha Ha! What can I say... it's a really typical script.

Eleanor Winters is a Hillbilly?? Holy smoke!  That person is a moron!  She has beautiful, traditional Copperplate & I still pull out her book on an almost daily basis!  I probably have 30 calligraphy books & it's the only one that I would immediately replace if something happened to it!!

Her style is definitely not that,  but "hillbilly" is a lovely word to practise for ascenders and double l's. :D
-Prasad

Something went wrong and my reply got mixed up in the quote,   :)
Just saw it and edited.  Perils of replying from an iPad :D
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Yen on February 14, 2015, 01:26:42 AM
I have bought a TON of nibs to try out, and I've been trying to use the Nikko G and Zebra G the most since they are so frequently recommended for beginners. But do they seem super HARD to anyone else? I feel like maybe I don't know what I'm supposed to be feeling but I feel like i have to apply SO MUCH pressure to get the nib to flex... its just not a pleasurable experience for me. I mostly use the Gillott 404... any suggestions on what else to use if I love this one?? Thanks!

If you really like the Gillott 404, try the 303. Also, I'd suggest trying the Hunt 101 and Hunt 56. I find the Hunt 56 to be closest to the Nikko G except more flexible. However, the older nibs do tend to skip more.

If you work with the Nikko G's they "warm up" after a bit and are less stiff and easier to work with. I always dread the change over to a new nib as they are stiff to get started. But then once warmed up glide well.

Hi! I'm relatively new to calligraphy and I agree that the Gillott 303, Hunt 101 and Hunt 56 are my go-to nibs when practicing. :) They are so easy to work with. The Gillot 303, however, seems to snag on my practice paper a few times.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Dora Szabo on March 17, 2015, 07:25:55 PM
Very helpful list, thank you Erica!
However shipping from US to Europe can cost a fortune, so I would be very thankful if someone can recommend an online shop in Europe or maybe a good store in Budapest. :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: NikkiB on March 17, 2015, 07:50:36 PM
Hi Nikki,

welcome from Potsdam (near Berlin)! I started with calligraphy some months ago – here are some adresses in Europe where you will find what you need to get started: I like to order from

http://www.blotspens.co.uk/,

they have a great selection of calligraphy supplies and they are fast.

The very first supplier I came across when I started with calligraphy is

http://www.kallipos.de/gb-calligraphy-shop.html

in Germany. I have often ordered from them, they also send most times an extra nib to try out which is very nice! They have a huge collection of vintage nibs and also some nice inks and one simple oblique pen holder.

Really good oblique holders are only to be found in the US, at least after my research! Have a look at the adresses here

http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0

or of course the beautiful handcrafted pen holders from Brian Smith

http://www.etsy.com/shop/UniqueObliques.

I buy iron gall ink and walnut ink from the Schenks in Switzerland, they make them themself and they are wonderful to write with:

http://www.kalligraphie.ch/store/index.php/cat/c54_Inks.html

I guess most of the supplies that Erica listed can be found from blotspens, except the oblique holder and the walnut ink (but they have a sepia ink I would be curious to try!).

Stefanie

I found this reply super helpful when I was starting out Dora, hope this helps, I did get an oblique holder from blotspens, it's just the standard plastic model but it works just fine for me.  I know there are links to other European sites around the forum but I'm not sure where  ???

I haven't seen anyone mention a Budapest store yet though, sorry x
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on March 18, 2015, 05:38:46 AM
Hello Dora.  :-)

I think the most comprehensive thread on this subject is here (http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=2200.0).

It's weighted towards the UK and Germany because it's mostly a list of the suppliers Estefa and I have used.  ;)  Really, all us Europeans ought to get together and compile a comprehensive list with a view to making a sticky topic.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Dora Szabo on March 18, 2015, 07:20:35 AM
Many thanks for you two! I will dig into these lists after work...  ;D
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: charys on March 30, 2015, 03:19:20 PM
Hello,

I've been trying to find Zebra G nibs locally and I was asked if 'Zebra' is the brand name.  I think it is, but not sure.  Can someone tell me if I'm correct?  Thank you :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on March 30, 2015, 05:40:59 PM
You're quite correct, Charys.  :)  It seems that the parent company is Deleter, if that's any help.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: charys on March 30, 2015, 08:01:11 PM
Thank you very much! 

It seems calligraphy is not popular here in the central valley of CA. I kind of like that. One person said they only have a small section and another person from another store told me they really don't get many requests and they don't have the Zebra but they have a lot of other options.  If they weren't on the other side of town I would have gone in to see what they have to research those options a bit. 

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: charys on April 15, 2015, 10:51:49 PM
Hello all,

Is there a quality difference between Peerless and Speedball holders?  And if so, does it affect the writing?  I've read a couple of posts on other sites that suggest there is a difference, but not sure.  Thanks
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on April 16, 2015, 05:31:44 AM
So far as I can tell the basic black Speedball is widely regarded as the lowest of the low ... irritatingly, I can write just as badly with a beautifully made custom holder.  My point being that quality is of marginal importance, if any.

There's a good reason for upgrading to a design with a brass flange, however, because you can adapt it to fit any nib within reason, and tweak the angle a little too.  Between the Speedball Deluxe and the Peerless I doubt that there's any significant difference in function, but if you take a glance at the reviews here (http://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/133) you might decide that the former is the better bet.  Don't dismiss the lowly $1.99 Speedball out of hand though: it's surprisingly comfortable and works well with a suitable nib.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: charys on April 16, 2015, 12:48:29 PM
Thank you, Andy. I was beginning to wonder if perhaps the quality of paper and type of ink might actually be worth more consideration than the holders.  I appreciate your input. 
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on April 16, 2015, 01:17:02 PM
Oh, without a doubt.  Paper in particular makes a big difference.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: charys on April 16, 2015, 01:25:26 PM
Ahh... thanks for that confirmation.  :)
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: garyn on April 16, 2015, 07:40:53 PM
Andy
The Peerless oblique holder has a brass flange.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AndyT on April 16, 2015, 07:53:17 PM
Andy
The Peerless oblique holder has a brass flange.

I know.   ???

So does the deluxe Speedball ... the only customer review of the Peerless at JNB implies that it might not be so resistant to solvents, otherwise there doesn't seem to be anything much between them.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: darrin1200 on May 08, 2015, 03:34:45 PM
I have a question about John Neal, Bookseller. Great store by the way.

I am about to place my first order, and I noticed a box for a promo code. Where can you find these code's? If I can save a few dollars, I figured I would ask before hitting the checkout button.

Thanks
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: dimins on October 23, 2015, 01:41:29 PM
I really want to get a good oblique holder but I have to ask a few questions:

1) I currently own a Brause black plastic oblique holder with a non-adjustable plastic flange. Am I good to go with this, or should I invest in an oblique holder with a metal flange? Today I noticed that my Nikko G nib kept wiggling out of the flange as I was lettering, and I had to occasionally push it back in, getting lots of ink on my fingers as I did so. I'm not sure if I didn't push it in deep enough when I mounted it the first time.

2) The Peerless oblique holder recommended at the beginning of this thread is out of stock on Paper Ink & Arts. Are there any other recommendations for oblique holders? I have the Ziller one in my cart (http://www.paperinkarts.com/zill40.html) but it's a brand that I've never heard of being discussed around before.

3) What should I look out for when buying oblique holder with metal flanges? Is it important to find a universal flange (if there's such a thing)? Most of the ones I've seen are fitted for Nikko G, which is still good enough for me since I own one and usually use that to practise, but I don't want to be in a situation when I have to hunt for other holders in the future if I acquire nibs that don't fit.

Thank you! I'm super tempted to splurge on calligraphy but I want to control my finances as well so I don't want to spend recklessly.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on October 23, 2015, 01:50:52 PM
Hi Mandy,

A super fancy holder is never required but something with a metal flange goes a long way in allowing you to customize your writing experience. For example, I cant (turn inwards) my flange to adjust the angle of my nib and of course being able to shape a flange to fit a different nib really helps.

There are somewhat universal holders (flanges I should say) such as the Paper and Ink Arts Hourglass Adjustable (Bullock Flange) or the Blackwell Holder from John Neal but they are higher priced. These holders come with advanced flanges that allow you to insert many different sizes of nibs with a simple screw adjustment.

The Ziller oblique will work well for what you need, the only major difference between that and the Peerless is that the body isn't smooth--it has flat grooves on it, take a closer look here (http://www.zillerofkc.com/oblique-pen-holder-1/oblique-pen-holder)

At the moment it looks like John Neal has more selection in stock
https://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/133
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: dimins on October 23, 2015, 02:18:05 PM
Hi Mandy,

A super fancy holder is never required but something with a metal flange goes a long way in allowing you to customize your writing experience. For example, I cant (turn inwards) my flange to adjust the angle of my nib and of course being able to shape a flange to fit a different nib really helps.

There are somewhat universal holders (flanges I should say) such as the Paper and Ink Arts Hourglass Adjustable (Bullock Flange) or the Blackwell Holder from John Neal but they are higher priced. These holders come with advanced flanges that allow you to insert many different sizes of nibs with a simple screw adjustment.

The Ziller oblique will work well for what you need, the only major difference between that and the Peerless is that the body isn't smooth--it has flat grooves on it, take a closer look here (http://www.zillerofkc.com/oblique-pen-holder-1/oblique-pen-holder)

At the moment it looks like John Neal has more selection in stock
https://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/133

Hello! Thanks for your reply :) I have checked out the various holders you mentioned in your posts. Unfortunately Paper Ink & Arts is also out of stock for the Hourglass Adjustable. The biggest concern I have about ordering from Paper Ink & Arts and John Neal is the shipping charges, but I guess I don't really have much of a choice, since the local arts supplies stores don't stock the oblique holders I'd like.

Will the flat grooves of the Ziller hinder the lettering experience, do you think?
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on October 23, 2015, 02:36:08 PM
I don't personally have any experience so I couldn't say :/ Someone else might be able to shine some light on that.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: AnasaziWrites on October 23, 2015, 06:29:09 PM

Will the flat grooves of the Ziller hinder the lettering experience, do you think?
It didn't for me. It did break at the flange after about 2 months use, though. Perhaps I overstressed it. It was subsequently useful as an ink stirrer.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Heebs on October 23, 2015, 07:26:46 PM
The few reviews I've read seem to suggest it is prone to breaking more often than other holders.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: dimins on October 24, 2015, 03:11:52 AM

Will the flat grooves of the Ziller hinder the lettering experience, do you think?
It didn't for me. It did break at the flange after about 2 months use, though. Perhaps I overstressed it. It was subsequently useful as an ink stirrer.

The few reviews I've read seem to suggest it is prone to breaking more often than other holders.

Wow, I wouldn’t have thought that. It looked pretty sturdy! I’ll keep that in mind. Perhaps I should consider other brands then. It’s unlucky that so many brands are OOS on Paper Ink & Arts.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: unscripted on October 24, 2015, 03:53:42 AM
Wow, I wouldn’t have thought that. It looked pretty sturdy! I’ll keep that in mind. Perhaps I should consider other brands then. It’s unlucky that so many brands are OOS on Paper Ink & Arts.

Indeed! Scarcity increases desire, perhaps? Wait for the one you want. You can also add OOS items to your cart, checkout, and PIA will ship everything when the item arrives. Probably best to email and check with them. For the item I wanted, it was a 2-week wait.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: dimins on October 24, 2015, 07:08:48 AM
Wow, I wouldn’t have thought that. It looked pretty sturdy! I’ll keep that in mind. Perhaps I should consider other brands then. It’s unlucky that so many brands are OOS on Paper Ink & Arts.

Indeed! Scarcity increases desire, perhaps? Wait for the one you want. You can also add OOS items to your cart, checkout, and PIA will ship everything when the item arrives. Probably best to email and check with them. For the item I wanted, it was a 2-week wait.

Thank you! If all else fails, I think that's what I have to do. I'm always so impatient after placing orders though, that 2 weeks seems like eternity to me. Haha.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: garyn on April 18, 2017, 04:24:18 PM
Two years later, has the problem with the Hiro 41 been solved?
That was a really nice nib, and I would like to use it again.
Title: Re: Recommend Supplies for Beginners
Post by: Erica McPhee on April 20, 2017, 08:28:16 AM
Good question Gary @garyn  I was just wondering the same thing. On a side note, I ordered some Blanzy 2552s and they had the same problem. They are made from the same type of metal. (And look very similar.) I'm wondering if there is a connection there. I will order some Hiro 41s to see if they are better.